Stereo Wide Bass Trick

drdeft · Post by **drdeft** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:13 am

Hi all !

I was trying to reproduce the trick i've seen in many tutorial ; when producers put a little delay ( few ms ) on either the left or right channel of the bass.

I always see Logic producers who use the native delay so I was trying to find a equivalent.. I tried some but not really fund a working one.

Is someone doing that with ableton's delays ? The simple delay looks good but you can't affect just one channel , can you ?

Which plug in you use for that trick ?! ( freeware or not .. )

I hope you understand my poor english ...

Have a good day !!
Let's Dub !

faultier · Post by **faultier** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:21 am

i reckon you should try voxengo stereo touch (freeware)

ascent · Post by **ascent** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Never used ableton, but can you not split the bass to 2 channels, delay one, and pan one left and one right

Debaser1 · Post by **Debaser1** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:25 pm

ascent wrote:Never used ableton, but can you not split the bass to 2 channels, delay one, and pan one left and one right

Agree. I usually do this when recording guitars or maybe vocals. I find that it has more worth than a sample delay because you can treat the 2 channels differently too; so you can mix them differently. A great touch with guitars is to have a dry signal on the left and then have the right channel with reverb and the mix at 100% so it created this lovely stereo width.

But yes,simple way to do it is duplicate the track, zoom in really close, move the second one like a few ms, and then pan one left and one right.

EDN · Post by **EDN** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:38 pm

TecBloc · Post by **TecBloc** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:57 pm

ascent wrote:Never used ableton, but can you not split the bass to 2 channels, delay one, and pan one left and one right

efence · Post by **efence** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:50 pm

if track is ever going to be played in a club ...make sure you check the the master in mono at end of mixing.you dont want to weaken the bass with phasing

Basic A · Post by **Basic A** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:53 pm

efence wrote:if track is ever going to be played in a club ...make sure you check the the master in mono at end of mixing.you dont want to weaken the bass with phasing

But dude, this is dubstep, gotta get that midrange sounding good on laptops/headphones.

Seriously... your bass doesnt need to be wide.

Debaser1 · Post by **Debaser1** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:58 pm

Very good point. Synths, pads, percussion etc should be wide. Bass is risky when wide.

TecBloc · Post by **TecBloc** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:08 pm

I'd say you are ok widening the mid to high frequencies of a bass sound.. just make sure your subs are separate, they should always be mono... there are a few different ways to do it, either plug-in or just duplicate the track and zoom right in and delay one by a few hundred samples, then pan hard left and right.

Basic A · Post by **Basic A** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:20 pm

TecBloc wrote:I'd say you are ok widening the mid to high frequencies of a bass sound.. just make sure your subs are separate, they should always be mono... there are a few different ways to do it, either plug-in or just duplicate the track and zoom right in and delay one by a few hundred samples, then pan hard left and right.

Subs need to be in mono because of phsychoacoustics, but the mids/highs canacelling each other, thats a technical thing that happens to the best of producers (ever hear old cookie monsta dropped out?) ... I dont want anyone to think Im totally arguing against it, Im just saying to be very cautious widening any freq' content of the basses because in mono, in a club, that shit NEEDs to be the focus, and having a clear sub with top mids phase-cancelled away will clean up your filth real fast...

With alot of synths, the inbuilt stereo plugins are designed with phase correlation somewhat bairn in mind... Like, the chorus and dimension expander on massive both fascinate me with how well they correlate, and thats why Im always being a proponent of get-it-right-in-your-synth too...

Basically, yeah, stereo widening is okay but with something as live-oriented as EDM/bass music you REALLY have to remember what systems your building these for and check them in mono constantly. Sidepoint : use effective means of widening and worry less.

TecBloc · Post by **TecBloc** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:45 pm

Basic A wrote:
TecBloc wrote:I'd say you are ok widening the mid to high frequencies of a bass sound.. just make sure your subs are separate, they should always be mono... there are a few different ways to do it, either plug-in or just duplicate the track and zoom right in and delay one by a few hundred samples, then pan hard left and right.
Subs need to be in mono because of phsychoacoustics, but the mids/highs canacelling each other, thats a technical thing that happens to the best of producers (ever hear old cookie monsta dropped out?) ... I dont want anyone to think Im totally arguing against it, Im just saying to be very cautious widening any freq' content of the basses because in mono, in a club, that shit NEEDs to be the focus, and having a clear sub with top mids phase-cancelled away will clean up your filth real fast...

Fair point

shaneynclan · Post by **shaneynclan** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:54 pm

TecBloc wrote:duplicate the track and zoom right in and delay one by a few hundred samples, then pan hard left and right.

could you theoretically do this multiple times i wonder, or would you encounter serious phasing.

Skang · Post by **Skang** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:28 am

Good advice in this thread, biggups.. changed how I go about working with my sub bass now

Rubik · Post by **Rubik** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:26 am

Just drop a tp basslane on either the bass effects channel or the master. It mixes all sound under a certain frequency to mono. Means you can make bass patches have a wide mid and high and low bass

safeandsound · Post by **safeandsound** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:34 pm

Ensure you do a mono sum check I have had a track or 2 where the bass goes AWOL when summed
recently. Advised client of course. Disasterous for pirate radio airplay.

EDN · Post by **EDN** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:17 pm

I hate the fact that all of the clubs people seem to go to are so fucking shit that they can't even get a stereo system.
All but the tiniest clubs I know run in proper stereo...

drdeft · Post by **drdeft** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:18 am

Thanks guyz !

Is a lot of people using basslane ?

+verb · Post by **+verb** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:21 pm

http://cl.ly/5kjx

my basic splitter rack with widening on highs only... made in latest version of ableton.

basically filter delay is perfect for this trick. playing with the ms for each channel will have a LARGE effect on the stereo field... i recommend 1-15ms settings. KEEP SUB MONO.

societyloser1 · Post by **societyloser1** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:23 pm

+verb wrote:http://cl.ly/5kjx

my basic splitter rack with widening on highs only... made in latest version of ableton.

basically filter delay is perfect for this trick. playing with the ms for each channel will have a LARGE effect on the stereo field... i recommend 1-15ms settings. KEEP SUB MONO.

THIS + a simple delay calculator to keep things in sync (could be usefull!)
& ableton's reverb -> input cut off -> a bit of predelay (sync with track) -> a short decay (100-500ms or so)!
& ye, widening your sub is stupid.

Maybe you should consider widening all the other elements except bass and kick (+snare)... Or atleast pan them around! But ya, that depends from tune to tune!

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