Resampling is not the answer.

[Kes-Es]

Right, so I've noticed this trend where everyone thinks that if you render out your shit bassline it's gonna sound better.
I'm not saying that it doesn't have its pros, but unless you're masslining or stretching, or just really need the extra CPU, there's really nothing you should be doing with that WAV that you couldn't do with the synth itself.
I personally have never resampled anything, never needed to, I think it's another overcomplicated way to do something simple, that is synthesis.
I'm not bashing on ALL the resamplers out there, but if you hear a sound and think "THEY MUST BE RESAMPLING" you're either underestimating the producer's ability to synthesize sounds, or overestimating your FX plugins.
You can do anything you can do by resampling inside your synth, if you can't then you should learn how.
I'm not bashing on anyone in particular, and feel free to discuss this as I love discussion, but I've never seen how you can justify resampling something 0640236750235 times to attain something that you could probably get in your synthVST just by learning more about waveforms filters and envelopes.
Also, massive is not what you need to make filth bass, please stop saying that, suck is suck no matter what VST you're running, all you need is practice.

Anyway yeah... Discuss.

[ChadDub]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

People don't even know what resampling is, and some people are like "yah just resample" as if it's JUST resampling. Wtf? If I just resample a sound it won't do anything, it's what you do to it after you bounce it out is what makes it different...

And yeah, people who don't even know what Attack means, or what EQ means, think they can just pick up Massive and instantly becoming Skrillex, it's not like that.

[wub]

Ooooooooo......good thread.

Gotta say, I'm a big fan of resampling HOWEVER I very rarely resample my synths - most of my resampling is done via sound design work, usually taking percussion loops that have been suitably fucked with and then reloading them, fucking with them some more and stretching/arranging them etc etc...big fan of creating my atmospherics through this technique as previous posts on the subject with attest to.

I fully agree that a lot of the times I see resampling mentioned on this forum, it seems that it's being held up as some sort of gold standard solution to all the world's problems - international bankruptcy, cure for cancer, stopping famine, sounding like Skrillex etc etc.

Resampling has it's place, but only if you know what you're doing and why you're doing it. CPU saving facilities is a good example, but tbh in this day & age of people running shit hot machines for less and less money, it's not as necessary as it once was unless you're running 10 instances of Massive or whatever (and IMO if you're doing that you've got some deeper problems to look at production wise other than your machine red lining itself)

A lot of the issues with resampling I think comes from people not reading the manual when they get a new synth. Case in point, the manual for Albino. Fucking huge thing, but I've printed out the PDF and it's included as an appendix to my Production Bible that I have next to my machine at all times. Breakdown on what does what and how and what difference this makes when applied to that, vital when you're learning a new piece of kit IMO.

I wouldn't say Massive persay is the problem, but I think a lot of newer producers need to look more at the basics - there is a great post somewhere on here or maybe another production forum that stuck with me, along the lines of all you need to make a bass is a sine wave and some processing. Pretty much sums up the root of the issue.

[RandoRando]

I never resample because what you said kes-es . "everything can be done with the synth itself". Only pro i see with resampling is cpu saving. I mean obviously yes, you cant distort, then eq that distortion, then run that through a formant filter, then eq, that then low pass it, then eq it again like you could with resampling. But its pretty much utter shit after all that

[wub]

I mean obviously yes, you cant distort, then eq that distortion, then run that through a formant filter, then eq, that then low pass it, then eq it again like you could with resampling. But its pretty much utter shit after all that

TBH, if I applied Distortion > EQ > Formant Filter > EQ > Low Pass > EQ to anything I'd expect it to sound like shit. You've just given an example of one of Kes' opening points; doing something an overly complicated way.

[Kes-Es]

I never resample because what you said kes-es . "everything can be done with the synth itself". Only pro i see with resampling is cpu saving. I mean obviously yes, you cant distort, then eq that distortion, then run that through a formant filter, then eq, that then low pass it, then eq it again like you could with resampling. But its pretty much utter shit after all that

You could circumvent that entire process by picking different waveforms, or saturating your sound, pretty sure most synths have on board distortion, if you need something past that and MAYBE a light distortion plug in you probably are taking it too far.

[Manic Harmonic]

I don't think I've ever used resampling for anything besides saving cpu... even then I try to just freeze tracks. the problem is I end up having about 40 to 60 something tracks and my computer doesn't like it. But as far as piling effects on to a sound (of any sort), resampling is definately not necessary for that. As for being able to do anything within the synth itself, for the most part that is true, but it really depends on what you're going for. This is a bad and horribly exaggerated example as we are obviously talking mainly about bass, but you're not going to get a lush, gentle-sounding pad out of a novation bass station. however, you probably could with some clever effects usage. But like I said previously, not necessary to resample.

[Kes-Es]

Ooooooooo......good thread.

Gotta say, I'm a big fan of resampling HOWEVER I very rarely resample my synths - most of my resampling is done via sound design work, usually taking percussion loops that have been suitably fucked with and then reloading them, fucking with them some more and stretching/arranging them etc etc...big fan of creating my atmospherics through this technique as previous posts on the subject with attest to.

I fully agree that a lot of the times I see resampling mentioned on this forum, it seems that it's being held up as some sort of gold standard solution to all the world's problems - international bankruptcy, cure for cancer, stopping famine, sounding like Skrillex etc etc.

Resampling has it's place, but only if you know what you're doing and why you're doing it. CPU saving facilities is a good example, but tbh in this day & age of people running shit hot machines for less and less money, it's not as necessary as it once was unless you're running 10 instances of Massive or whatever (and IMO if you're doing that you've got some deeper problems to look at production wise other than your machine red lining itself)

A lot of the issues with resampling I think comes from people not reading the manual when they get a new synth. Case in point, the manual for Albino. Fucking huge thing, but I've printed out the PDF and it's included as an appendix to my Production Bible that I have next to my machine at all times. Breakdown on what does what and how and what difference this makes when applied to that, vital when you're learning a new piece of kit IMO.

I wouldn't say Massive persay is the problem, but I think a lot of newer producers need to look more at the basics - there is a great post somewhere on here or maybe another production forum that stuck with me, along the lines of all you need to make a bass is a sine wave and some processing. Pretty much sums up the root of the issue.

I'm not the kind of guy who can sit around and read a manual, that said I also never watched a tutorial video or copped a patch to "Learn", I think the obvious way around that is to tinker around, I can't tell you exactly what all the knobs do but I know what to expect when I turn them. I'm sure the albino manual is a tome, It's my weapon of choice and I have been using it forever and consider myself pretty good at it, but I haven't even tapped into the layering capabilities or the FM and AM functions on the oscs..

I'm a firm believer in simplicity though, I rarely even automate sounds, I usually use envelopes and just lay out the midi notes.

I maintain the reality in my head that one prolific producer said he resamples stuff, probably because he's working on a POS computer like me and gets 99% cpu spikes with two instances of albino open and no effects, and that now all the producers that have "that sound" read those threads where everyone is saying how they resample everything laughing their asses off. I dunno, it's been bugging me, people need more practice and less bad advice.

[Sine69]

I'd have to agree with this. I've resampled something once, and it was just so I could split the frequencies.

A shit sound will be a shit sound regardless of how many times you bounce it.

[wub]

I'd have to agree with this. I've resampled something once, and it was just so I could split the frequencies.

Why though? You can frequency split without having to resample; just output the source sound (synth etc) through 3 seperate mixer channels and EQ/band split each one seperately, then bus them back together again. No need to bounce, reload, and THEN freq. split.

[Kes-Es]

I don't think I've ever used resampling for anything besides saving cpu... even then I try to just freeze tracks. the problem is I end up having about 40 to 60 something tracks and my computer doesn't like it. But as far as piling effects on to a sound (of any sort), resampling is definately not necessary for that. As for being able to do anything within the synth itself, for the most part that is true, but it really depends on what you're going for. This is a bad and horribly exaggerated example as we are obviously talking mainly about bass, but you're not going to get a lush, gentle-sounding pad out of a novation bass station. however, you probably could with some clever effects usage. But like I said previously, not necessary to resample.

I'm not actually just talking about bass, synths were first designed to mimic real instruments, and the sound effects in movies nowadays, as wacky as they get, those guys are using the same synths we are, so your atmospheric stuff, to your leads, to even your complex hydraulic sounds, are all possible inside a well equipped synth, that's what it was made to do.

I'm not familiar with novation so I might be jumping the gun a little but I don't think it's too terribly unrealistic to say that you COULD get a lush gentle pad out of it, while it may be designed for bass, very seldom do I run into a synth that is ONLY capable of one nature of sound, filters and oscs behave pretty much the same way and as long as it can reverb and delay and you can use filters properly anything capable of a range of octaves is good for pretty much anything.

[synthlf]

hmmm i always thought that resampling is needed for really twisted modulations, like when you modulate a already modulated synth, and then resample and repeat...and repeat...and this is what synths can't do.

[Kes-Es]

hmmm i always thought that resampling is needed for really twisted modulations, like when you modulate a already modulated synth, and then resample and repeat...and repeat...and this is what synths can't do.

What you absolutely cannot do inside a synth, you can do with automation, you still don't need to resample.
Edit* Further than that stuff like that IE. Masslining and shit, isn't what I'm talking about, If you're going for that sort of stuff and you know what you're up to then resampling is perfectly alright and interestingly applied, I'm talking about needlessly resampling to apply more filters and shit because you think it'll eventually sound better if you keep tinkering.

[Sine69]

I'd have to agree with this. I've resampled something once, and it was just so I could split the frequencies.

Why though? You can frequency split without having to resample; just output the source sound (synth etc) through 3 seperate mixer channels and EQ/band split each one seperately, then bus them back together again. No need to bounce, reload, and THEN freq. split.

I was really just curious to see if I could find any advantages that resampling presented besides preserving CPU. I played around with chopping up the audio and moving it around, but it sounded like shit so I ended up just keeping everything MIDI and freq. splitting that way.

[hasezwei]

there are a lot of cases where resampling is valid, for example if i made a patch in one of the more complex synths with loads of fx and careful eqing to get the best possible result it's almost always that the different values work on only a single note, as the pitch changes the whole frequency spectrum of the sound.
so rather than painstakingly setting up keytracking for all important parameters i'll just bounce out a .wav and load it into kontakt, there you go.
on other occasions i wanna use kontakt's or alchemy's fx and/or filters on a sound i created in another synth -> resample that shit.

and then there's the cpu issue. my pc just doesn't like running 2 instances of massive, alchemy and maybe fm8 to top it off at once plus all the fx i'm running on my channels. hell most of the time it's on it's knees by the time i'm finishing my drum/percussion tracks

but yes, frequency splitting does not require resampling and neither does stacking up gazillions of fx inserts.

[Electric_Head]

hmmm i always thought that resampling is needed for really twisted modulations, like when you modulate a already modulated synth, and then resample and repeat...and repeat...and this is what synths can't do.

The problem is that generally over modulating will make a mish mash of noise.
And really not achieve what you`re going for.
Subtle changes to a sound and then rendering to do more subtle changes is really where resampling can be effective.

[FuzionDubstep]

Nah I don't agree at all.. there are things you can do by resampling that the synth's just aren't capable of such as little automation adjustments and the fact that you can split frequencies and apply effects multiple times.. although I think resampling is only needed if you are saving CPU unless your going for a heavier sound which is what most of my tracks are, but I suppose if you're going for dark dubstep or chilled out stuff then of course resampling shouldn't be necessary.. if you know what you're doing (I'm not saying you don't or that I do) then re-sampling can be really useful, but like everything its PERSONAL PREFERENCE.. nothing is better than anything else.

[Electric_Head]

Nah I don't agree at all.. there are things you can do by resampling that the synth's just aren't capable of such as little automation adjustments and the fact that you can split frequencies and apply effects multiple times.. although I think resampling is only needed if you are saving CPU unless your going for a heavier sound which is what most of my tracks are, but I suppose if you're going for dark dubstep or chilled out stuff then of course resampling shouldn't be necessary.. if you know what you're doing (I'm not saying you don't or that I do) then re-sampling can be really useful, but like everything its PERSONAL PREFERENCE.. nothing is better than anything else.

I agree

The original thread subject was more focused around resampling being the holy grail.
Kes-es stated that resampling alone is not going to create a sound you are looking for.
If you know how to effectively resample then you don`t fall into this category.

[daft cunt]

Resampling is probably not the answer if you're into standard brostep midrange kinda sounds but saying it's not the answer at all and/or it's overrated is just plain ignorant.
You have no use for it ? Good for you really but by making this thread you're just showing you don't know what you're talking about, which, as a matter of fact, you pointed out yourself at the 3rd line: "I have never resampled anything".

There are things you can do without resampling and others you can't. Simple as that.
End of thread ?

[Kes-Es]

Resampling is probably not the answer if you're into standard brostep midrange kinda sounds but saying it's not the answer at all and/or it's overrated is just plain ignorant.
You have no use for it ? Good for you really but by making this thread you're just showing you don't know what you're talking about, which, as a matter of fact, you pointed out yourself at the 3rd line: "I have never resampled anything".

There are things you can do without resampling and others you can't. Simple as that.
End of thread ?

That's an awesome argument if you're just trying to be a tnuc.
I also said that there ARE practical uses for it and that I wasn't talking to EVERYONE, you should actually read what you're being a tnuc about before you decide to be a tnuc about it you daft tnuc .

No but really, read the fucking argument man, I'm not just being a dick about resampling in general, or at all, I'm saying that if you don't know why you're doing it you shouldn't be doing it and that most of anything you would need to do it for is possible inside your synth.

I'm not just a brostep producer, and am totally aware of it's other uses, saying I have never resampled is to say that when I'm doing what these kids are trying to do I don't resample. Come back when you put your dick away homie.