i've spoken with sarah and gee and this is their reply
L
In response to Deapohs thread, firstly we have to express that we regret the way that deapoh has distorted the truth about this, as we've only ever dealt with him professionally considerately and openly.
we approached deapoh in recognition of his tireless work on recording rinse shows and had a good relationship with him. he was a team member and helped with rinse.
It was known early on to him and everyone that eventually the sets, interviews etc would have to start coming exclusively from the Rinse website, but after some time, his attitude changed considerably after he wanted us to allow him to sell recordings of the rinse broadcasts.
He was insisting that the sets be sold from Barefiles with a percentage going to Rinse. for many reasons, the only site that we can sell rinse sets from is the rinse site. This is a perfectly normal and reasonable request and at no point was it a decision made to 'boy Deapoh as he is claiming.
one of the proposed solutions for sharing the sale of Rinse sets was to incorporate deapoh into rinse:
thats a quote from the email conversations about the rinse sets. We feel that out of context quotes were used against us by deapoh in the thread from that conversation, so we've included the unedited emails at the end so you can make your own minds up. Its a shame to have to go into such detail, it should have never been made public.'' we could buy it (Barefiles) off you, incorporate it into rinse and give you a cut of the company still?
I wanted to give you a chance to think about it... I'd like it if we could meet to talk about it?
Safe
sarah''
for the record and those that asked, sarah is ammunition (geenues is not involved) and is a partner of rinse with geeneus. at no point was ammunition involved with barefiles
Barefiles has given Rinse alot of international coverage with thousands of downloads of dubstep sets from the station to go on the site, which was a great exchange. but it does not give him the right over selling the rinse sets, which is what deapoh is so angry about. its obviously a big deal to him as rinse sets have been on there since barefiles started, the best thing to do was offer him options to bridge the gap between sites, but an agreement couldnt be made.
We know hes frustrated, but to go on a forum and slander ammunition and its crew was unprofessional and out of order, whatever his stance
Rinse has been broadcasting for 13 years and first programmed dubstep when hatcha + kode 9 came on the station in 2003, we loved and stood by the music at a time when exposure was minimal and we'll continue to support our artists and DJs, we encourage you to ask any actual DJ or colleague of Rinse and they will back this up.
We are looking to move beyond this situation for the sake of Rinse and Barefiles in what should have been a private matter over the sale and distribution of Rinse fm sets
peace
Rinse fm crew
On 01/12/06, Sarah <sarah> wrote:
Listen, Gee and I have been meaning to ask you; we want to buy barefiles from you, we could buy it off you, incorporate it into rinse and give you a cut of the company still?
I wanted to give you a chance to think about it... I'd like it if we could meet to talk about it?
Safe
sarah
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Paul Rose (Scuba) asked to pay for all the servers from Hotflush on Apr-21-2006. I wouldn't feel right selling it to anyone sorry. But of course I'd love Rinse to be involved somehow.
Lets talk about it more next time.
Bless,
Deapoh.
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On 12/01/07, Sarah <sarah> wrote:
Ez Deapoh
How you doing? Happy 2007 bruv, hope you enjoyed the festive season : )
This email is to try to clarify how you will work with Rinse. Seen as
we haven't got round to meeting I figure its best to do this by email.
So, we need someone to oversee the download section of rinse as
discussed. The exact specs as to how the files will be manually
uploaded and then downloaded by the user is to be ironed out. What I need to know from you is do you want to oversee the process once it's set up, including recording and editing each file/set, and giving input where relevant to how the whole system should operate.
If you are up for it then we need to establish what you want in return. Also its worth saying for the record that barefiles will no longer be able to host rinse sets, and we would like to be able to use the existing sets.
Please can you give us an idea how you see it best working, so far what you have done with barefiles is amazing and we want to work with you long term. I'd like to figure out how we can move forward with you working with us, rather than a casual arrangement I want to confirm how it will run now so all involved knows what's what.
Let me know your thoughts on this, firstly if you are into the idea then if you would prefer us to come up with some options that's cool too, just let me know...
Big up
Sarah
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Begin forwarded message:
Hi,
Happy 2007. Had a quiet one over Christmas but New Years was round
FWD as usual, second home business. That night was liiive.. I can't quite remember it, I drunk a lot and smoked a lot but enjoyed it.
I've been meaning to email you about the Rinse mixes. What I’m setting up on Barefiles is a registration thing where you buy a certain amount of mixes so £25 = 1000 downloads. Or something like this, not sure on pricing exactly, might do a yearly registration but I can see this brining in a lot of money. Also will allow anyone to submit mixes that will be checked and uploaded. So everyones got a chance of being found out about.
I was thinking if we include the Rinse FM mixes on Barefiles still as
many people know that site for mixes. I can write you a script so
people can access it from the Rinse site. Of course I don't mind
recording from the studio so it's higher quality and cutting it up. I've read from quite a few people they're dieing for higher quality. Even 128 stereo people would be happy with. We could work out a package where you get more Rinse mixes but at a higher price etc. And between us we can work out a percentage of the money thats being brought in.
Registered Barefiles as a Ltd company the other day.
The legal radio mixes will be kept free so I don't get done in.
Let me know what you think of this.
Bless,
Deapoh.
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On 28/01/07, Sarah <sarah> wrote:
EZ D
Hope you're cool
Apologies for the formal tone but rather than let there be any
misunderstanding from now on I want to be very clear about the Rinse/Barefiles situation.
The only site/host/place that ANY Rinse sets or sets from Rinse FM
artists; including pre-records, recordings of the stream, live
events , performances, interviews (and any other) across all formats will ONLY be available from an official Rinse site from now on (i.e. rinse.fm and for the avoidance of doubt this means not on Barefiles)
We have been working towards setting this up for months now and we will be making sure that any re-hosting of our content gets stopped ASAP. We have the governing copyright protection agencies to help us control this (as we have the relevant licenses set up already)
There is no way we will be changing our mind about this and need you to be clearly informed.
I figure its best you digest this information and think about if its
worth meeting, I don't want to waste your or our time. Think about
it and should you still want to meet we will be more than happy to.
Safe
Sarah
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Dear Sarah,
We here at Barefiles Ltd. are absolutely shocked at the position your taking regarding the Barefiles/Rinse.FM situation. The intent of this email is for Rinse.FM to clearly understand our position in the matter and hopefully bring light to some points that we don't think Rinse.FM is considering.
First off, we would like to bring to your attention all the time Barefiles has spent working for Rinse over the past year. We feel that we have put forth a considerable amount of time and effort and deserve to be compensated in some way. Dean has spent hours on end recording and uploading Rinse.FM mixes to the Barefiles server over this past year. A large portion of time spent was strictly to the advantage of Rinse.FM. Is Barefiles to understand that Rinse.FM feels no compensation is necessary here?
You have to realise that there would not be such a high demand for Rinse.FM sets if it was not for us recording and hosting them over the past year. It is not good business for Rinse.FM to try and bully away this momentum that Barefiles has created. Hours and hours were spent creating Barefiles.com and making the name what it is, now Rinse.FM wants to come in and steal the thunder just because we did not want to sell the website? We feel this is very unprofessional.
Barefiles.com is a much bigger and a more established global brand than Rinse.FM. Barefiles has given Rinse.FM a lot of global recognition over the past year. Rinse.FM would not have even close to the global fan base it has now without people downloading from our website. We spread and advertised the Rinse.FM name around the world. Factually speaking, Barefiles gave Rinse.FM more of an international position than Rinse.FM has EVER created for itself.
On average there are 25000 sets a month downloaded from Barefiles. Of these sets about half are Rinse.FM sets. Barefiles feels it would be in Rinse.FM's best interests to have users download Rinse.FM sets from Barefiles.com and receive a cut of the profit. Full details would have to be worked out.
How many people are going to pay to download Rinse.FM mixes when they can listen for free? Since the website has been offline for 2 weeks, there have been numerous other people recording the stream and hosting the recording. It will be nearly impossible for Rinse.FM to stop this from happening. Even if Rinse.FM has relevant copyright licenses in place, it is extremely expensive to pay copyright lawyers. If the sets are hosted outside of the UK, Rinse.FM will have to pay international copyright lawyers to fight their cause. We wonder if Rinse.FM has any idea in the actual costs surrounding copyrighting. We feel that if Barefiles.com was to continue hosting mixes this re-hosting would be cut to a minimum due to the loyalty and respect people have towards our very well established brand name.
If Barefiles was to start selling its mixes separate from Rinse.FM, we think most people would pay to login to Barefiles.com over Rinse.FM because anyone can listen to your station for free while our site contains "new" or unheard material. Please keep in mind that the Rinse.FM shows are almost the exact same material from week to week. Same tunes from the same DJ's, music progression is still very slow in the scene. We feel that giving users the ability to download Rinse.FM sets as well as other sets would advantage Rinse.FM due to the fact users would have more choice in what they can download. It's more bang for the buck. Also have you considered that you must pay the DJ aswell as artists in the mix for selling their music?
Barefiles Ltd already has the ability to process credit cards, debit cards and PayPal payments. We assume you are aware of the costs involved in setting up these types of payment processors and will realise that it is cheaper to set them up for one site rather than two. We have a new, considerable large, marketing budget to spend in 2007. We are preparing for various different ad spends over the next year that would also be to the advantage of Rinse.FM. More information on these ad spends will be brought to light if an outcome is pursued that is beneficial to both parties.
The name Barefiles.com stretches far beyond the grime and dubstep scene limits and is responsible for exposing the sound to many new people. The website is listed/linked on countless other websites that are not scene related and we have also been mentioned in various magazines, newspapers and on numerous flyers. We will continue to expose even more people to the sound with our new marketing budget. Exposing new people to the sound has been our underlying motivation from the start.
The name Barefiles is going to continue to grow and will only be further excelled with the addition of its sister company Bare Dubs Ltd. Bare Dubs has many forth coming releases and will soon be selling its vinyl releases online in conjunction with Barefiles.com. We are also in the talks of selling mp3 copies of the vinyl releases on our sites as well as others.
Barefiles Ltd does not want to sound overly harsh but, Rinse.FM will receive a negative image in the scene if we are no longer able to host Rinse.FM mixes. We have explained the current situation to a few "key players" in the scene and let's just say their reactions have not been good. Barefiles.com is prepared to change its front page to inform the public of the current situation as well as post on dubstepforum.com.
We would like to thank you for considering everyone's time and its great that you don't want to waste anyone's time, but if we cant work something out, Barefiles is going to sustain a considerable amount of time wasted.
Thanks,
Barefiles Ltd.
