gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[moodswing]

cheers for the tips, i dread 2 think how many years it would have taken me to learn this stuff myself.

Probably a lot less than it took me my friend. You are lucky to be a "beginner" in this wonderful new world of production forums, free software and youtube tutorials. Back in the day (not that long ago) there were no (pirated or bought) waves bundles and getting access to a recording-mixing facility was essential if you wanted to learn plus home-studios were practically midi-atari-cheap desk-cheap/no monitor affairs so you couldn't practice at home.

So cheer up. If you are at a point where you can understand half of what you read here (at least theoretically) and feel like you are getting close to the other half then you're well on your way.

If you can apply that knowledge on your mixes and make it work for you go ahead and PM macc for his bank account number , you know mysterious benefactor style.

[adam_john]

Great thread, Macc you're the man for posting up these tips.

[higgzbozon]

This is some of the best info i got in the last few moths!
When im done mixing i always just turn all the faders to -3db..
Thought that was enough for headroom.. But damn.. I tried this and maccs right!.. Thank you very much!!

[macc]

Leave your faders at zero and get it right even before it hits your mixer

That is, the sample on the audio track, or the output of your synth, or whatever. Just have that at the right level and you're laughing.

The faders in most DAWs have better resolution near unity gain so it allows to make make finer adjustments if you already have it more or less right. Trying to make a 1dB cut when the fader is ight at the bottom is impossible without entering numbers and all that shit.

I can't remember if I said this already, so I'm sorry if I am repeating myself!

[higgzbozon]

Leave your faders at zero and get it right even before it hits your mixer

That is, the sample on the audio track, or the output of your synth, or whatever. Just have that at the right level and you're laughing.

The faders in most DAWs have better resolution near unity gain so it allows to make make finer adjustments if you already have it more or less right. Trying to make a 1dB cut when the fader is ight at the bottom is impossible without entering numbers and all that shit.

I can't remember if I said this already, so I'm sorry if I am repeating myself!

Thanx! And depone too thanx for sharing the pic.
This was exactly what i was looking for. I'm at the point i think my tunes are ready for release, but i want them too sound as best possible before mastering. So this whole thread is a real eye opener. You guys do realize that you are all helping fellow producers to fully master their music this way?? I appreciate that alot, who knows my next tune will be a hit because of these tips! !

[higgzbozon]

Btw Depone that a/alien girl is SICK!!!!!!!!!
keep them coming i will be following

[macc]

You kids don't know yer born

[higgzbozon]

also, a great trick is to limit the amount of FX you use. Just because you have them at your disposal, doesnt mean you have to use them. I found by limiting myself, i improved musically and then my production also shot through the ROOF. just my two cent

+1 on that.

I do the same thing, the less tools the more creative you have to be!

[higgzbozon]

Use prefade sends to 2 groups.

THESE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATE AND MAY VARY (I shouldn't even have to say that but some people seem to take a number and think it is gospel )

Gp1 - LP eq at ~ 80-90Hz

Gp2 - HP eq at ~ 180-200Hz

Both those groups get routed to group 3, 'bass out' or whatever.

Hey macc, can you please tell me how to route this in cubase / nuendo?
Cos i've tried but i can just connect massive to 1 group a time... Don't i need two sytnhs or a synth with atleast two outputs?? .. please tell me cos this seems like a good solution for my sub and bass problems!

[macc]

Instantiate Massive
Create 3 groups, call one Low, one High and one Out (or Rod, Jane and Freddy, or whatever you want to call them)
Route Low and High to Out
On Massive output channel, turn down fader all the way, you get no sound
On Massive output channel, set first send to Low, sending at -6dB
Set second send to High, sending at -6dB
Still no sound – but now on those two sends click the pre-fade send button and there you go.
You now have exactly what you had before, but split to two channels, then recombined – result is exactly the same as direct sound from Massive.
Put a LPF in the Low channel as desired, and HPF in the high channel. Treat them as you wish individually and then treat the overall sound in the out channel.

[higgzbozon]

Instantiate Massive
Create 3 groups, call one Low, one High and one Out (or Rod, Jane and Freddy, or whatever you want to call them)
Route Low and High to Out
On Massive output channel, turn down fader all the way, you get no sound
On Massive output channel, set first send to Low, sending at -6dB
Set second send to High, sending at -6dB
Still no sound – but now on those two sends click the pre-fade send button and there you go.
You now have exactly what you had before, but split to two channels, then recombined – result is exactly the same as direct sound from Massive.
Put a LPF in the Low channel as desired, and HPF in the high channel. Treat them as you wish individually and then treat the overall sound in the out channel.

Damn Macc, have had ANY sleep? hahaha
Thanx man! Will try that right away!
Me and my friend plan to release alotta tunes this year, so ur gonna be a busy man

[antipode]

Awesome thread!

[grooki]

This thread is one of the best threads in the forum. It should be made a sticky I reckon. And Macc should get a prize
With the sidechaining business:
I used to high pass my kicks above the sub level, and basically they would end up sounding a little weak. At the moment I usually side chaing the kick and sub, and this seems to work pretty well - I guess I want to have my cake and eat it because I want powerful kick AND powerful sub, and it seems to me like side chainging is the only way to achieve this.

Maybe I'm Lowpassing my sub too high (around 80 - 100). When I HP the kick at this level the punch really gets taken out.
If you want a good thud on the kick + sub at the same time, what recommendations do people have?

[paradigm_x]

i tend to use a lowpassed square/saw wave for sub. you get a few, low level harmonics which add a bit of 'presence'/'clarity' (hate these subjective terms). If you think of a 12/24dB/octave filter, youll still get harmonics at say double the fundamental, but at a much lower level.

either that or distort a sine slightly.

youre right tho, kind of pointless lping a clean sine, unless its generated in a dirty synth ! (envelopes/filters)

[serox]

I know the numbers are rough but shouldn't the LP meet with the HP? what happens with the stuff between 90/180 for example?

Use prefade sends to 2 groups.

THESE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATE AND MAY VARY (I shouldn't even have to say that but some people seem to take a number and think it is gospel Laughing )

Gp1 - LP eq at ~ 80-90Hz

Gp2 - HP eq at ~ 180-200Hz

Both those groups get routed to group 3, 'bass out' or whatever.

[serox]

Instantiate Massive
Create 3 groups, call one Low, one High and one Out (or Rod, Jane and Freddy, or whatever you want to call them)
Route Low and High to Out
On Massive output channel, turn down fader all the way, you get no sound
On Massive output channel, set first send to Low, sending at -6dB
Set second send to High, sending at -6dB
Still no sound – but now on those two sends click the pre-fade send button and there you go.
You now have exactly what you had before, but split to two channels, then recombined – result is exactly the same as direct sound from Massive.
Put a LPF in the Low channel as desired, and HPF in the high channel. Treat them as you wish individually and then treat the overall sound in the out channel.

This is for NI Massive only right? you wouldn't do something like this with the whole mix, right?