An interesting debate

jonnyrebel · Post by **jonnyrebel** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:08 pm

I have noticed (and I know im not the only one) that pretty much everything is being held back to a ridiculous degree lately. Im talking about dubplates. Now Exclusivity is important to dj's and producers so they can play a set that keeps people interested and gives the element of performance (ie skream playing 90% his own material) but it works both ways.

A good example is Benga and Walsh bassface. This tune has been on dubplate for over a year now, I dont get it. Its such a sick tune and it appears to have been given to a lucky few. I had forgotten about it completely untill I listened to bengas mix from mary anne hobbs yesterday and thought fuck me what a tune, it still isnt out... in fact half that set still hasnt been released.
Its the same thing right across the board, far too many amazing dubplates that would shift copies and keep the scene looking healthy from a sales point a view.

Take a look at chemical records and the dubstep section. I still find great tunes but the majority are not the ones I want, and tbh im buying a lot more house and techno at the moment. The majority of tunes on chemical are either not to my taste at all or uk funky?!

Z audio and Hench seem to be the only labels not holding things back, Rock da bells had such a swift release both on vinyl and digitally, and is quite possibly one of the best tear out tunes so far, but crucially it wasnt held back.

If you look at the house side of things, back in 2004 Sasha completely left vinyl mixing to go digital. The reason being he had completely lost that air of exclusivity from his sets, that uniqueness, the whole reason to see him perform in the first place.
I make no secret of being a huge fan of his and have followed his work since the back end of the 90's but for me since he switched to a completely digital outlook his sets are second to none, he KILLS IT!!! Completely unique sets filled with tunes that are all released digitally, the difference is that he can manipulate the music using live. He is still a self confessed vinyl addict but it didnt ruin his career to change format and people have come round to his way of thinking.

What im asking is essentially this. Is dubplate culture actually something to be proud of? I love vinyl, im a vinyl collector but I seriously believe its taking away that community feel good spirit, music for the people from the people, and becoming a bit of a boys own club.

All we want is great music, wont you give it to us properly?

ovesen · Post by **ovesen** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:14 pm

It's silly....

aftee · Post by **aftee** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:16 pm

100% agree..

I understand keeping some tunes rare for a bit...but over a few months is just no excuse..shouldn't you have some more bangers by then?

ridiculous...

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:20 pm

Sasha should have gone to Transition tbf.

jonnyrebel · Post by **jonnyrebel** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:23 pm

Ive heard the argument from mala about keeping things special, I do agree with that in theory but when you put it into practice I believe it does more harm than good. Look at drum and bass, Ganja records. Hype will rinse tunes for a year, you forget about them and then they get released, rinsed to fuck and you end up hating the tune because its just been released almost for the sake of it in the end.... also because im not really a fan of ganja records

but i know plenty of people who are and it just pisses them off too!

jonnyrebel · Post by **jonnyrebel** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:23 pm

Paulie wrote:Sasha should have gone to Transition tbf.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:23 pm

To be fair, none of us know the real reasons why things are held back - I suppose in some cases it might be a ''I've got this and nobody else can have it'' thing, but not all of the time.

Also, I agree with Mala when he says that he keeps some tunes unreleased because it makes seeing him live more special - how many times have you bought a tune that you absolutely loved seeing in a dance only to find that its lost something just by being so easily accessible? Maybe thats just me tho...

Surely more and more tunes are getting released digitally anyway?

(A bit O/T maybe) I saw some DJs on a big soundsystem the other week and it really brought the vinyl/CD debate to mind - one DJ was playing off CDs and it was so loud on the mids/tops and not so loud on the bass, it was hurting my ears (and this has happened with a few DJs at FWD recently I've heard). But then the next DJ started playing off dubplates and had serious problems with the needles jumping... There's obviously pros and cons to both.

The biggest Vinyl con for a bedroom DJ like me is the price - I prefer owning vinyl but a lot of the time I'm thinking that having serato or CDjs would be so much cheaper...

nimbus · Post by **nimbus** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:26 pm

Im with u mate. I think you can still keep an air of exclusivity without withholding quite so many big tunes. About 10% percent of my percy's are released. I think this culture will hurt vinyl sales because I, and many others I know are just shifting towards serrato etc...

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:29 pm

Corpsey wrote:To be fair, none of us know the real reasons why things are held back - I suppose in some cases it might be a ''I've got this and nobody else can have it'' thing, but not all of the time.

This.

Corpsey wrote:(A bit O/T maybe) I saw some DJs on a big soundsystem the other week and it really brought the vinyl/CD debate to mind - one DJ was playing off CDs and it was so loud on the mids/tops and not so loud on the bass, it was hurting my ears (and this has happened with a few DJs at FWD recently I've heard). But then the next DJ started playing off dubplates and had serious problems with the needles jumping... There's obviously pros and cons to both.

Harsh tops/mids shouldn't be so much of a problem if you are playing tracks off cd that have been mastered. And anyway, most mixers have a function called "eq" meaning the attentive DJ should be able head off unwanted harsh frequencies as required. I'm not suggesting that this makes up for the difference between a cd and a well-cut record but it can narrow the gap.

jonnyrebel · Post by **jonnyrebel** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:30 pm

how many times have you bought a tune that you absolutely loved seeing in a dance only to find that its lost something just by being so easily accessible? Maybe thats just me tho..

very good point actually, this has happened to me... But crucially how many times have you heard a tune at a dance, its come out and totally captured the vibe at the time then remains rooted to your record bag!

Also I do understand the things producers go through with release dates and unexpected issues etc so I know there are other factors but it isnt that hard to sell digitally + making your own website and selling on there (surely if your a big label you could benefit from this...)

I for one think dubplate.net could kill it if they put out more of skream and bengas material digitally and sooner... the people that buy vinyl will no doubt still by the vinyls but for the amount of people that I know that just want the tunes but cant because they simply dont know where to get them.... a bit of promotion combined with exclusive digital releases could go a long way

noodles dpr recordings · Post by **noodles dpr recordings** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:35 pm

dubplates= 0 sales...

kingcannibal · Post by **kingcannibal** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:36 pm

as said already,sometimes shit stays unreleased for a long time. I've got stuff going back close to 2 years now that still hasn't come out.
BUT hearing a tune get rinsed to death before its released really killed my excitement in dnb for a long time. By the time people that aren't pals with the producer can get their hands on it the track more often then not feels OLD and tired already. When i do pass on my stuff to my regular lot its only a few weeks before the release date.
As for a producer stepping up with something exclusive to play out... well i guess that's what VIPs are for.

mattrelton · Post by **mattrelton** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:41 pm

here here!

frank grimes jr. · Post by **frank grimes jr.** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:42 pm

I love paying my hard earned cash to cut my own dubplates.

etzel · Post by **etzel** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:46 pm

KingCannibal wrote:as said already,sometimes shit stays unreleased for a long time. I've got stuff going back close to 2 years now that still hasn't come out.
BUT hearing a tune get rinsed to death before its released really killed my excitement in dnb for a long time. By the time people that aren't pals with the producer can get their hands on it the track more often then not feels OLD and tired already. When i do pass on my stuff to my regular lot its only a few weeks before the release date.
As for a producer stepping up with something exclusive to play out... well i guess that's what VIPs are for.

I agree. Its about a healthy balance. Release most stuff early, keep some (and i mean only some) releases percy for a while. At the end of the day, I'd still go to dances regardless if I had most of the tunes or not. It's the mixing, sound system and vibes I go for, new tunes are bonuses. And couldn't producers just release tunes early but release less copies? That way not everyone has the exact same record bag.

strye · Post by **strye** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:47 pm

It would be cool if some dubplates get a very limited pressing and then a sale. Especially the ones that will never get a full release at the time that they should, in a way making them collectors items and worth a lot of money and respect for being able to pick them up in time.

And I agree that too many dubs are being held from release. Especially outside of the UK where shows aren't that regular we have a lot of dj's playing dubstep who don't produce it. With the request for shows increasing at almost the same rate as the costs to book a well known producer we end up listening to a lot of the same sounds and people over and over.

teknyq · Post by **teknyq** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:47 pm

I've been waiting for japan to come out on vinyl since i was in my mothers womb....

strye · Post by **strye** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:50 pm

Also serato seems to be the stupid solution to playing an original set with digital releases. But it takes away so much of the original vinyl charm.

surface_tension · Post by **surface_tension** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:54 pm

Paulie wrote:Sasha should have gone to Transition tbf.

lol

anyway, I most agree with the OP... waiting forever is a bad look. That said, so is not waiting and losing your ass. There needs to be a balance. I would like to get to a place where I get a tune and release it within 3 months on vinyl, and have a bit of time to get it mastered, spend a month or two promoting the shit out of it, getting it pressed up, hearing the reaction... then releasing it. That does take time. I don't think the amount of time it takes now is rational.

Also, keep in mind that some producers make tunes so that only they and a few others can play them... that means most of the tunes you like and want to come out, probably won't ever come out. I don't like it anymore than you do, unless of course I have the tune myself

kingcannibal · Post by **kingcannibal** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:56 pm

strye wrote:Also serato seems to be the stupid solution to playing an original set with digital releases. But it takes away so much of the original vinyl charm.

yes but.... for travelling deejays its easier then carrying about a big box of vinyl and there isn't any arguments with the promoter about having to pay excess baggage fees. I've never been that much in to Serato myself but if you're used to using vinyl its the easiest way to translate the way you work on to software.

An interesting debate

An interesting debate

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