is there room for "real" hip-hop in the mainstream

[constrobuz]

crowley you need to loosen the straps on your jansport. raekwon and gangsta rap ruining hip hop... lol.

[crowleyhead]

crowley you need to loosen the straps on your jansport. raekwon and gangsta rap ruining hip hop... lol.

Raekwon yes.

Gangsta Rap? No. 'cause M.O.P., NWA, Dre, Snoop, Above The Law, MC Eiht, Geto Boys and millions of stuff that's under that stupid label is good hip-hop.

And anyway, this is just one thing. Personally, I think it's a mix of Puffy/The Roots/Raekwon all equally responsible for fucking up hip-hop in the mid 90's. But lord knows I'm obviously 'wrong'.

[2tall]

And anyway, this is just one thing. Personally, I think it's a mix of Puffy/The Roots/Raekwon all equally responsible for fucking up hip-hop in the mid 90's. But lord knows I'm obviously 'wrong'.

huh?

explain how the roots fucked hiphop up,

actually explain how raekwon did too please.


i would be interested to hear your views..



i for one think the roots have been nothing but quality since day 1, maybe a few weak moments but overall fucking dope.

raekwon i can take him or leave him really, but i'd say he had little to do with "fucking up hiphop

[sirsnaf]

I think it's a mix of Puffy/The Roots/Raekwon all equally responsible for fucking up hip-hop in the mid 90's. But lord knows I'm obviously 'wrong'.

the roots? one of the most globally respected and admired groups in music as a whole, not just hiphop, plus they have one of the tightest drummers around today.

each to their own, everyone has their tastes and all that, but to deny their talent and musicianship, their positive impact on music and the hiphop culture, is nothing but living behind blinkers. in my view, that is

i am sure you will have some illogically logical justification for it though, i am interested to hear it out

[kapital]

LOL this thread is going sideways pretty fast.


The Roots????

[crowleyhead]

@2tall; just look back in the previous posts I've left. Repeating them would take me all day.

@Snafu; Well, there's a few reasons for me as far as this. Number one, when it comes to hip-hop, I'm a real reverse Luddite. I don't see the appeal of 'the hip-hop band'. You can do so much with a sampler, turntables, etc. etc. Getting instruments seems like a cop-out to me. "Oh, we got a drummer now, so, we're a legit act."; but, to get overly excited about some average 90's dude with some limp jam-funk band behind him doesn't make sense to me.

On a side, I have listened to them on occasion more recently with their little experiments in the studio, apparently the influence of ?uestlove, so I can't say they've been entirely rubbish to me.

And on another hand, there's always been an element of pseudo-organics to them. The Roots helped usher in Neo-Soul; and with the exception of D'Angelo, that was really more of an image based marketing scheme backed with really just uninspired production. It's like, "This is music for the intelligent, non-commercial connoseur of urban music... who doesn't mind that this is all on major labels, and incredibly derivative with little innovation." Even early J Dilla stuff falls into this for me!

After the Neo-Soul thing, there's another more subtle issue they raised. It's one thing to be conscious and aware and cultural. It's another thing to emphasize your seperation from Hip-Hop. Early 90's, everyone was different, but we were all the same. And pretty much the only victims of abuse were Hammer and the like. Otherwise, everyone was on the same page. But then, with the arrival of The Roots, you see more people start avoiding contact with the rest of hip-hop and digging their own circles. Suddenly, you have this stuttering-semi-conscious commercial underground, priding itself on reality and not being fake. Which at the end of the day, is not too different from the 'realities' of gangsta rap. But it's not like say, Kool Keith, where the artist is making sonic choices that don't necessarily fit in the commercial world, so major labels aren't going to give him the time; these guys are well-paid, critically friendly 'revolutionaries'. You can argue that 'they don't get radio airplay', or "MTV won't play their shit" but as we all know, it's not like that's ever stopped anyone. And at the same time, these are artists who are more than likely to refuse such marketing techniques, knowing it'll make their 'position' seem more valid. Or they'll make some awful video using footage of hangings, and when nobody wants to see that, "Oh you see! People can't handle THE REAL!". No, it's that, not everybody wants to see footage of death, just because you want artistic value to a video backing your boring soul samples and 'Impeach The President', while you mumble something about the inner city.

It's not The Roots direct fault of that issue. But, after '96, you have three things about hip-hop I can't stand. Puffy for reasons clear and obvious to probably everyone on this board, and the rest for reasons I've outlined.

[2tall]

hmm i think youve made some good points there, there is something too wholesome sounding about the neo soul thing to me which smacks of things being too clean cut on the surface for the sake of success, the roots, jazzamatazz etc.. definately contributed to this. there are good decent raw sounding artists that have sprung up thanks to that foundation though, and also it's all about perception at the end of the day, something that is sonically clean can still have a raw dirty harmony but you might not appreciate it unless you have a trained ear.

IMO neo soul is a diffrent genre, and does cross pollinate with hiphop and is to me another branch of it anyway.. but i think only adds to the variety, you still have other artists to choose from all the time, don't like talib? check for necro, don't like necro, check for ugly duckling? don't like them check for xzibit? eminem? immortal technique? atmosphere?


perception is a mother fucker! nobody's opinion is wrong.

hiphop has been discussed ad nauseaum anyway so i'll bow out now.

happy debating.