DENMARK: A SAD SCENE

[j-sh]

i love the way someone posts up a detailed and rational explanation for the whole thing and everyone completely ignores it and starts going OH NOES! THIS AM TEH SHOCKING!

maybe there were too many words i dunno.

it was context, not justification

[fretn]

And the worst thing about it is that they are NOT edible, because of all the lead & poisons in the surrounding sea...
so it's just useless, sometimes i wonder who the real animal is...

[de-fi]

i love the way someone posts up a detailed and rational explanation for the whole thing and everyone completely ignores it and starts going OH NOES! THIS AM TEH SHOCKING!

maybe there were too many words i dunno.

Yeah, people just prefer to jump the gun and not bother looking into things like this.

The explanation matey gave ON PAGE 1 IN FULL DETAIL is perfectly acceptable imo.

Get off your high horses and realise that some people still need to kill to eat. Just because you can go to holland and barret and get your 2000% organic mung beans doesn't mean that other people can do the same.

[j-sh]

i love the way someone posts up a detailed and rational explanation for the whole thing and everyone completely ignores it and starts going OH NOES! THIS AM TEH SHOCKING!

maybe there were too many words i dunno.

Yeah, people just prefer to jump the gun and not bother looking into things like this.

The explanation matey gave ON PAGE 1 IN FULL DETAIL is perfectly acceptable imo.

Get off your high horses and realise that some people still need to kill to eat. Just because you can go to holland and barret and get your 2000% organic mung beans doesn't mean that other people can do the same.

Actually alot of energy, and threrefore money is wasted by the meat industry - its actually much more efficient, in an economic sense, to not eat meat.
The general process of how meat is produced is something like

(1) grow massive amounts of corn, grain, and soybeans (with all the required tilling, irrigation, crop dusters, and so on);

(2) transport the grain and soybeans to manufacturers of feed

(3) operate the feed mills

(4) transport the feed to the factory farms

(5) operate the factory farms;

(6) truck the animals to slaughter;

(7) operate the slaughterhouse

(8) transport the meat to processing plants

(9) operate the meat-processing plants

(10) transport the meat to grocery stores

(11) keep the meat refrigerated or frozen in the stores, until it's sold.

Every single stage involves heavy pollution, massive amounts of greenhouse gases, and massive amounts of energy - AND massive amounts of money


My point is this: by sustaining such a wasteful industry we put a massive burden on our own economy. So to argue that only the rich can afford to be vegetarians is actually completely false, as the meat industry is far more expensive to sustain than the vegetable one. Eating meat makes us all poorer, both by the economy and the impact it has on the environment that we, as taxpayers, pay to avoid.

Basically what im saying is that if people stopped eating meat, then perhaps there would be fewer people who had to kill for food out of necessity.

On another point, i dont think evaluating how best to lead your life is being 'on your high horse'

Please don't take this as a slate - im more interested in just havin a debate than slagging each other off.

[setspeed]

i love the way someone posts up a detailed and rational explanation for the whole thing and everyone completely ignores it and starts going OH NOES! THIS AM TEH SHOCKING!

maybe there were too many words i dunno.

Yeah, people just prefer to jump the gun and not bother looking into things like this.

The explanation matey gave ON PAGE 1 IN FULL DETAIL is perfectly acceptable imo.

Get off your high horses and realise that some people still need to kill to eat. Just because you can go to holland and barret and get your 2000% organic mung beans doesn't mean that other people can do the same.

Actually alot of energy, and threrefore money is wasted by the meat industry - its actually much more efficient, in an economic sense, to not eat meat.
The general process of how meat is produced is something like

(1) grow massive amounts of corn, grain, and soybeans (with all the required tilling, irrigation, crop dusters, and so on);

(2) transport the grain and soybeans to manufacturers of feed

(3) operate the feed mills

(4) transport the feed to the factory farms

(5) operate the factory farms;

(6) truck the animals to slaughter;

(7) operate the slaughterhouse

(8) transport the meat to processing plants

(9) operate the meat-processing plants

(10) transport the meat to grocery stores

(11) keep the meat refrigerated or frozen in the stores, until it's sold.

Every single stage involves heavy pollution, massive amounts of greenhouse gases, and massive amounts of energy - AND massive amounts of money


My point is this: by sustaining such a wasteful industry we put a massive burden on our own economy. So to argue that only the rich can afford to be vegetarians is actually completely false, as the meat industry is far more expensive to sustain than the vegetable one. Eating meat makes us all poorer, both by the economy and the impact it has on the environment that we, as taxpayers, pay to avoid.

Basically what im saying is that if people stopped eating meat, then perhaps there would be fewer people who had to kill for food out of necessity.

On another point, i dont think evaluating how best to lead your life is being 'on your high horse'

Please don't take this as a slate - im more interested in just havin a debate than slagging each other off.

most of that is true, but in the context of this thread -

1 - the meat travels to them, no farming necessary. they don't need to do pretty much any of the steps you mention, so it's actually a lot more efficient and lower impact than farming crops would be (remember that the dolphins are no endangered and they only do it once a year)

2 - the faroe islands are small, rocky, cold, and completely unsuited to arable farming. if they all went veggie they'd have to start shipping even more foodstuffs in than they do already. which obviously would be less efficient.

you're right, there's certainly an argument to be had regarding our food chain, but i think we'd all be better off looking closer to home at stuff like battery farming etc etc

[j-sh]

i love the way someone posts up a detailed and rational explanation for the whole thing and everyone completely ignores it and starts going OH NOES! THIS AM TEH SHOCKING!

maybe there were too many words i dunno.

Yeah, people just prefer to jump the gun and not bother looking into things like this.

The explanation matey gave ON PAGE 1 IN FULL DETAIL is perfectly acceptable imo.

Get off your high horses and realise that some people still need to kill to eat. Just because you can go to holland and barret and get your 2000% organic mung beans doesn't mean that other people can do the same.

Actually alot of energy, and threrefore money is wasted by the meat industry - its actually much more efficient, in an economic sense, to not eat meat.
The general process of how meat is produced is something like

(1) grow massive amounts of corn, grain, and soybeans (with all the required tilling, irrigation, crop dusters, and so on);

(2) transport the grain and soybeans to manufacturers of feed

(3) operate the feed mills

(4) transport the feed to the factory farms

(5) operate the factory farms;

(6) truck the animals to slaughter;

(7) operate the slaughterhouse

(8) transport the meat to processing plants

(9) operate the meat-processing plants

(10) transport the meat to grocery stores

(11) keep the meat refrigerated or frozen in the stores, until it's sold.

Every single stage involves heavy pollution, massive amounts of greenhouse gases, and massive amounts of energy - AND massive amounts of money


My point is this: by sustaining such a wasteful industry we put a massive burden on our own economy. So to argue that only the rich can afford to be vegetarians is actually completely false, as the meat industry is far more expensive to sustain than the vegetable one. Eating meat makes us all poorer, both by the economy and the impact it has on the environment that we, as taxpayers, pay to avoid.

Basically what im saying is that if people stopped eating meat, then perhaps there would be fewer people who had to kill for food out of necessity.

On another point, i dont think evaluating how best to lead your life is being 'on your high horse'

Please don't take this as a slate - im more interested in just havin a debate than slagging each other off.

most of that is true, but in the context of this thread -

1 - the meat travels to them, no farming necessary. they don't need to do pretty much any of the steps you mention, so it's actually a lot more efficient and lower impact than farming crops would be (remember that the dolphins are no endangered and they only do it once a year)

2 - the faroe islands are small, rocky, cold, and completely unsuited to arable farming. if they all went veggie they'd have to start shipping even more foodstuffs in than they do already. which obviously would be less efficient.

you're right, there's certainly an argument to be had regarding our food chain, but i think we'd all be better off looking closer to home at stuff like battery farming etc etc

nah yeh i agree, i was talking more about the justificiation of eating meat in general and the idea that its some how more cost efficient.

my argument is definitely more aimed at animals that are raised for food more than animals that are hunted. I don't really agree with either, but personally if i was stuck in the jungle fuck yeh id hunt some animals.
On the other hand if we continue our rate of consumption both tuna and cod will most probably be extinct within the next 5 years.
I realise none of this is related to the specific topic at hand, although i would ask is the killing of these dolphins is really as much a necessity as youre making out? - surely there are alternatives? (i really dont know)

but still i agree

[adwok]

Exactly. These Danes are in my eyes slightly more "noble" meat eaters in that they are prepared to either slaughter them whales themselves or watch. Necessity to some degree... A bit like the meat eating Tibetan (or is it Nepalese?) Buddhist monks. Not much choice there. Most of us DO have the choice. And out to Mr pppfffff (Capo Ultra), don't you think we live more so on a planet than in an economy?

[cityzen]

.

[repr0bate]

BAWWWWW! IT'S ALL TOO REAL!

[capo ultra]

Exactly. These Danes are in my eyes slightly more "noble" meat eaters in that they are prepared to either slaughter them whales themselves or watch. Necessity to some degree... A bit like the meat eating Tibetan (or is it Nepalese?) Buddhist monks. Not much choice there. Most of us DO have the choice. And out to Mr pppfffff (Capo Ultra), don't you think we live more so on a planet than in an economy?

I think it's a ridiculous ideal that you should kill what you eat, I would have no problem doing it but I don't see the point. Would you dispose of your own shit?

I'n not saying that food production isn't dark because it is, and I agree people should think more about what they eat. but I'm not becoming some kind of hunter gatherer just because I eat though

Btw I think the treatment of the humans who produce alot of the food that we eat is just as bad if not worse than the treatment of animals as well. Philippino's getting paid £2 a day or something to havest prawns is well harsh.

[capo ultra]

You're an idiot

You're an idiot

[wrexile]

I guess these guys are just doing what they need to survive. And I do agree, that in some ways, it is better than the cattle trade. But if they for one minute are causing unnecessary suffering or harm, or are getting some kind of sick, twisted pleasure out of this, then they should be murked in the exact same fashion.

(I don't suppose it would be easy to find such things out as there's always the prospect of cover-ups)

[saphyre]

I for one believe (now, used to love meat) that if you choose to eat animals you should do the killing yourself, or at least be prepared to watch the slaughter...

yeah and if you buy a record you should be prepared to produce and cut it yourself. And if you wear clothes you should be prepared to tailor them yourself, and if you use pencils you should mine the lead and if you use gas you should get the gas yourself, and if you buy a computer you should build it yourself and if you walk into a building you should build the architecture yourself.

pppffff....we don't live in a subsistent economy and for good reason

lollll

[incnic]

build a maccas and leave teh fish be

[HamCrescendo]

we need some more barbarians in here, theres 2 many vegan, 2 many many vegan.

[hackman]

save a melon, eat a vegetarian

[de-fi]

i love the way someone posts up a detailed and rational explanation for the whole thing and everyone completely ignores it and starts going OH NOES! THIS AM TEH SHOCKING!

maybe there were too many words i dunno.

Yeah, people just prefer to jump the gun and not bother looking into things like this.

The explanation matey gave ON PAGE 1 IN FULL DETAIL is perfectly acceptable imo.

Get off your high horses and realise that some people still need to kill to eat. Just because you can go to holland and barret and get your 2000% organic mung beans doesn't mean that other people can do the same.

Actually alot of energy, and threrefore money is wasted by the meat industry - its actually much more efficient, in an economic sense, to not eat meat.
The general process of how meat is produced is something like

(1) grow massive amounts of corn, grain, and soybeans (with all the required tilling, irrigation, crop dusters, and so on);

(2) transport the grain and soybeans to manufacturers of feed

(3) operate the feed mills

(4) transport the feed to the factory farms

(5) operate the factory farms;

(6) truck the animals to slaughter;

(7) operate the slaughterhouse

(8) transport the meat to processing plants

(9) operate the meat-processing plants

(10) transport the meat to grocery stores

(11) keep the meat refrigerated or frozen in the stores, until it's sold.

Every single stage involves heavy pollution, massive amounts of greenhouse gases, and massive amounts of energy - AND massive amounts of money


My point is this: by sustaining such a wasteful industry we put a massive burden on our own economy. So to argue that only the rich can afford to be vegetarians is actually completely false, as the meat industry is far more expensive to sustain than the vegetable one. Eating meat makes us all poorer, both by the economy and the impact it has on the environment that we, as taxpayers, pay to avoid.

Basically what im saying is that if people stopped eating meat, then perhaps there would be fewer people who had to kill for food out of necessity.

On another point, i dont think evaluating how best to lead your life is being 'on your high horse'

Please don't take this as a slate - im more interested in just havin a debate than slagging each other off.

Yeah, those are all good and roughly correct points, but trying not to sound too cliched, it's the system that's the problem.

We as a population have just grown too big and too lazy to do anything differently. We're outgrowing this planet so natures starting or will start to bite back soon enough.

For thousands of years we've had a completely sufficient and sustainable hunting and gathering system, but now all of a sudden we've got goods from all over the world, in abundance at prices that don't reflect the difficulties of obtaining them 2 minutes down the road at the local hyper-super-mega market.

[adwok]

I think it's a ridiculous ideal that you should kill what you eat

I agree. It is ridiculous, but it is what happens. When you choose to eat chicken, chicken dies. Chicken died because of you, therefore you killed chicken. I have less beef (sorry) with you personally because you

would have no problem doing it

It's just that most chicken eaters WOULD have a problem doing it. We have the highest ignorance to intelligence ratio in the animal kingdom. That out of site=out of mind mentality just irks me...

[NilsFG]

I like meat. And no offense, to me, the whole system of being vegetarian/vegan makes no sense.