Caspa responds to Simon Reynolds' Guardian blog

osky · Post by **osky** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:10 pm

shit yeh, i did wrong there i've just seen a lot of wobble moaning recently so i jumped to the conclusion.

wheelchairprince · Post by **wheelchairprince** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:31 pm

Hanlo wrote: Are we wanting to make dubstep a world heritage site or something?

Ha ha

Pistonsbeneath · Post by **Pistonsbeneath** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:44 pm

so is the conclusion from this thread that expressing an opinion on something is wrong if you use long words?

i don't personally rate anything by caspa save for floor dem, well ard, rubber chicken & his mix of n-types way of the dub...i actually do hate a lot of his new album...it's frustratingly dull to listen to

is it wrong for me to write that?

jim · Post by **jim** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:54 pm

Piston wrote:so is the conclusion from this thread that expressing an opinion on something is wrong if you use long words?

Yes, basically on this forum the consensus is don't think, and don't say anything negative. Even if your job is being a journalist, and your job is to think about music and write critically about it. Anyone who thinks that that article was in any way scathing, some sort of hatchet-job, or unfair to Caspa, is really overreacting.

Reynolds can be a bit dollar-bin postmodernism sometimes and recently I've thought he's been way off on a lot of things, including funky (he isn't feeling it). However he is a good critic and has written some great stuff. I'd take this article - http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/2033/ - over Caspa's entire body of work. Not that this should be about taking sides, it should be about realising that it's fine for people to have opinions about things and express them, even if you don't agree.

timmyyabas · Post by **timmyyabas** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:16 am

i think we should all quote plastician and say we agree, then big up caspa.

it's the way forward.

stappard · Post by **stappard** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:27 am

timmyyabas wrote:i think we should all quote plastician and say we agree, then big up caspa.

it's the way forward.

i agree, big up

wait what?

rhea · Post by **rhea** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:59 am

Plastician wrote:The thing that annoys me with articles like this is that, if too many of them pop up, people who spend most of their lives reading blogs and internet forums instead of actually going out and experiencing the music in question start believing what they read to be true, without building their own independent opinions of the subject matter.

Not to sound at all belittling or anything right? I'm sure some people are very capable of making up their own minds, not sure why you're assuming that because he isn't wholly positive that instantly means he's never been out to a dubstep rave/ his opinion isn't valid

Although in another way you are right - people should be more discerning about the dubstep they go out raving to, if only! Perhaps if i'd been to less nights I wouldn't be quite so cynical.

Plastician wrote:If you go to a caspa show, its generally very busy full of people going mental. Is it really a crime to help people have fun as part of your job?

It seems he gets a lot of stick on here and on other blogs and sites purely because he is not "cool" in the blogosphere.

I am not sure it has anything to do with cool, perhaps more so to do with the fact that people aren't feeling his beats. I could go to a Girls Aloud gig and see probably about ten times as many people going mental. Doesn't automatically mean I have to enjoy it.

timmyyabas · Post by **timmyyabas** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:05 am

Rhea wrote:
Plastician wrote:The thing that annoys me with articles like this is that, if too many of them pop up, people who spend most of their lives reading blogs and internet forums instead of actually going out and experiencing the music in question start believing what they read to be true, without building their own independent opinions of the subject matter.
Not to sound at all belittling or anything right? I'm sure some people are very capable of making up their own minds, not sure why you're assuming that because he isn't wholly positive that instantly means he's never been out to a dubstep rave/ his opinion isn't valid

he didn't exactly say that, he just said if there's lots of articles like this or the majority of articles about dubstep are in this vain, then the masses willl just assume this to be the case without ever finding out for themselves, which i guess is true.

rhea · Post by **rhea** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:19 am

timmyyabas wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Plastician wrote:The thing that annoys me with articles like this is that, if too many of them pop up, people who spend most of their lives reading blogs and internet forums instead of actually going out and experiencing the music in question start believing what they read to be true, without building their own independent opinions of the subject matter.
Not to sound at all belittling or anything right? I'm sure some people are very capable of making up their own minds, not sure why you're assuming that because he isn't wholly positive that instantly means he's never been out to a dubstep rave/ his opinion isn't valid
he didn't exactly say that, he just said if there's lots of articles like this or the majority of articles about dubstep are in this vain, then the masses willl just assume this to be the case without ever finding out for themselves, which i guess is true.

Understood, but similarly the general public who may not read/know anything about dubstep on the net are more likely to hear Caspa sets across the UK giving them a certain impression of the genre which also isn't particularly rounded?

timmyyabas · Post by **timmyyabas** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:27 am

i doubt many people who haven't heard of dubstep will be hearing many caspa sets.

anyways, i was just saying, i don't really care wot ppl think.

_boring · Post by **_boring** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:32 am

i guess people forget about we are ie remix

plastician · Post by **plastician** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:14 am

Rhea wrote:
timmyyabas wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Plastician wrote:The thing that annoys me with articles like this is that, if too many of them pop up, people who spend most of their lives reading blogs and internet forums instead of actually going out and experiencing the music in question start believing what they read to be true, without building their own independent opinions of the subject matter.
Not to sound at all belittling or anything right? I'm sure some people are very capable of making up their own minds, not sure why you're assuming that because he isn't wholly positive that instantly means he's never been out to a dubstep rave/ his opinion isn't valid
he didn't exactly say that, he just said if there's lots of articles like this or the majority of articles about dubstep are in this vain, then the masses willl just assume this to be the case without ever finding out for themselves, which i guess is true.
Understood, but similarly the general public who may not read/know anything about dubstep on the net are more likely to hear Caspa sets across the UK giving them a certain impression of the genre which also isn't particularly rounded?

timmy thats what i was trying to say of course people are entitled to opinions.

Rhea, anyone who comments on dubstep as a whole based solely on hearing caspa sets would be a wasteman anyway.

I was just saying that articles like the one printed are annoying as if too many of them appear about one artist, the whole forum / blog massive seem to follow suit.

theevilgirl · Post by **theevilgirl** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:24 am

Plastician wrote:I was just saying that articles like the one printed are annoying as if too many of them appear about one artist, the whole forum / blog massive seem to follow suit.

potemkin · Post by **potemkin** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:23 am

What ever our opinion of the article as a whole is, it is riddles with some pretty funny moments:

'that kind of dubstep" with "every pissed middle-class student wanker acting like geezer and geezerette on dancefloors across the country" '

It's so true.

Caspa to me embodies the side of Dubstep that is widely appealing to people who have only got access to the Student focused Dubstep nights that have cropped up in cities across the country where Dubstep previously had little root, but a market developed because Londoners find themselves all over the place at Universities. As a result Dubstep is exported in a very forced, and unfluid manner, in which only tunes which follow suit to the very drunk student in a sweaty bar that sells nothing but WKD, Carling and crap Vodka.

If, as Plactician has said, people wanted to form decent opinions of Dubstep they would have to go and experience it from it's root, and not from the commercial vantage point of a branded student night. Most good Dubstep is not a brand, and is not filled of gimmicky samples from well known films.

Basically: I'd like to see some of the random students obliviously walking around in their bubble (who are, sadly, fuelling the commercial sale of Dubstep as Pop music) list 2562, F, Pinch, Peverelist, Synkro, T++, Jamie Vex'd, etc etc, even huge names like Mala probably don't even come to mind when someone says Dubstep.

Like DnB, Dubstep has to have it's Jump Up. Caspa is that.

mechabot 01 · Post by **mechabot 01** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:00 am

It shouldn't matter if you like Caspa's music, he's a part of the scene and a mutual respect should be a given, standard!

potemkin · Post by **potemkin** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:08 am

I don't think it's just a problem with Caspa's music though, it's a problem with the nature of the people who are recieving it with uncritical open arms, while ignoring most other kinds of Dubstep.

And the point does stand that the kind of music he makes appeals to the culture that alot of people dislike.

mechabot 01 · Post by **mechabot 01** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:21 am

Potemkin wrote:I don't think it's just a problem with Caspa's music though, it's a problem with the nature of the people who are recieving it with uncritical open arms, while ignoring most other kinds of Dubstep.

And the point does stand that the kind of music he makes appeals to the culture that alot of people dislike.

A culture that people who don't live within it don't like, that's how the izan party came to power

What happened to live and let live?

Why the constant need for other people to fall into our nice little boxes of what people should and shouldn't be doing in their lives, as long as noone else is suffering who the fuck really has the right to tell us how to live.

I haz questions and I need ze answers, schnell schnell schnell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

potemkin · Post by **potemkin** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:00 am

Oh goodness, a comparison to the izan party, how original, and compelling an arguement. I better completly stand down.

Just because people think most students are irritating, and the culture that surrounds them is geared towards "living it large" - completly because of the capitalist system which tries to tell students that they have to fit a role, and that culture and fun can only be found within the realms of Alcohol, enforces it - and will complain that Caspa embodies the dubstep encantaton of that... does not also mean that we will out Students in gas chambers, and invade Poland.

potemkin · Post by **potemkin** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:03 am

Also:

You're from Brooklyn, and I can imagine you haven't witnessed the kind of mainstream form Dubstep has taken here in the UK. In till you've done that, I wouldn't make so many judgements.

raffia · Post by **raffia** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:02 am

u need to look at the criticism in context - Reynolds has a lot of knowledge but does write some total nonsense - for instance his 'energy flash' book is full of personal opinions presented as historical truths.

and its not just caspa he moans about, he even takes shots at mala and loe do i don't know why capsa would be bothered about the article -

is being guy richie so bad ? he was married to the biggest pop star in the world, makes populist stuff that many people love, and brings in loads of cash. i don't rate his films (or madonna) but i'm sure he's happy.

Caspa responds to Simon Reynolds' Guardian blog

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