making an illegal rave legal?

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:02 pm

ok guys, this might seem a bit like, not exacly stupid, but maybe a bit... bear with me!

me and a mate are trying to set up a relatively small scale free party, if possible we would prefer to do it without stepping on peoples toes and the subsequent legal outcomes...

so, what exactly do we need to do to make sure (as far as possible without seriously hampering the party) that we arent doing anything especially wrong?

weve got a medium sized marquee sorted, and hopefully we should have a 2k-ish rig too. how far away from the better (ahem) part of civilisation do we need to be so as not to create too much disurbance?

is there anything else we should know about before getting on with it?

also, how do the laws covering GPLs work? if its on private ground (albeit not our own land) and we arent selling alcohol or charging people to enter, could this be an issue?

basically, we dont want to set everything up, then get shut down half an hour later for some proper stupid reason, so we want to make sure we have as many bases covered as possible, and in situations like this, knowledge is power!

thanks guys

cosmic_surgeon · Post by **cosmic_surgeon** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:08 pm

A guy I know was doing this for his birthday, and he had to get in contact with the person who's land it was and ask permission/pay them/assure them they would take responsibility for any damages. As long as they're cool with it, no one's gonna report you xD

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:14 pm

ah thats seems quite easy then, the area where we are doing it is mostly countryside so hopefully we should be able to find someone sound enough to let us use a bit of land if we tidy up afterwards. surely though if the noise is disturbing people surrounding the land, we could still get grief even if we have permission to use the land?

__________ · Post by **__________** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:15 pm

in theory, if you're on private land (with the landowner's permission) and you're not deemed a nuisance by environmental health, you don't need to sign any forms to have a party.

if you want to do it a little bit more properly, contact your local council, explain to them what you're intending to do, and apply for a TEN - temporary events notice. if the council approves your application, you're free to have up to 499 people, and you're a step closer to legally selling alcohol on the night.

its much easier to get landowner's permission, say its a birthday party, tell the police you're having a celebration and to expect a few hundred people along with loud music, and then either go round with a donation bucket, or sell pretty nos baloons (they aint for inhaling, promise) to cover your costs.
you might think its stupid telling the police, but its a good idea cos they'll probably turn up anyway and you look a bit more responsible if you've pre-alerted them. makes it look more like an honest party than a rave you think you can get away with.

i might not be making much sense at the moment but there you go! good luck!

q23 · Post by **q23** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:25 pm

In America we have permits for this sort of thing on public land or in a venue that usually wouldnt have a party.

I am not sure what type of system they have in other parts of the world.

Sound complaints are always an issue on private land.

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:30 pm

£10 Bag wrote:in theory, if you're on private land (with the landowner's permission) and you're not deemed a nuisance by environmental health, you don't need to sign any forms to have a party.

if you want to do it a little bit more properly, contact your local council, explain to them what you're intending to do, and apply for a TEN - temporary events notice. if the council approves your application, you're free to have up to 499 people, and you're a step closer to legally selling alcohol on the night.

ok thanks, do you know how long it would take us to get a TEN? i dont think selling alcohol is really the kind of thing we are going for, its probably gonna be a BYOB kind of thing, we arent aiming for anything huge, maybe a couple of hundred at the absolute max.

£10 Bag wrote:either go round with a donation bucket, or sell pretty nos baloons (they aint for inhaling, promise) to cover your costs.

this sounds like an absolutely brilliant idea, thanks for that!

£10 Bag wrote:you might think its stupid telling the police, but its a good idea cos they'll probably turn up anyway and you look a bit more responsible if you've pre-alerted them. makes it look more like an honest party than a rave you think you can get away with.

yeah this is a very valid point, the only issue being if the police were to tell us that we cant do it, i expect they would turn up anyway just to see if we are still gonna go ahead with it regardless, and then surely we would have put ourselves in an even worse situation? being a small country town, whilst we are pretty much spoilt for potential locations, the police around here can be pretty strict on things like this!

thanks a lot for your advice, much appreciated!

thomasplanetmu · Post by **thomasplanetmu** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:32 pm

Make sure if you advertise it, you advertise it as a private party. If you flyer it just put something like "This flyer is your invitation please bring it with you".

For more advice check out squatjuice

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:33 pm

Q23 wrote:In America we have permits for this sort of thing on public land or in a venue that usually wouldnt have a party.

I am not sure what type of system they have in other parts of the world.

yeah, i think the thing is, if you are holding an event in a public place, you need to have a GPL to play music, and some sort of door/security staff? (please correct me if im wrong!)

Q23 wrote:Sound complaints are always an issue on private land.

this is the main issue as far as i can see, anyone got any idea how far the sound from a 2-3k system would travel?

__________ · Post by **__________** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:42 pm

£10 Bag wrote:you might think its stupid telling the police, but its a good idea cos they'll probably turn up anyway and you look a bit more responsible if you've pre-alerted them. makes it look more like an honest party than a rave you think you can get away with.

yeah this is a very valid point, the only issue being if the police were to tell us that we cant do it, i expect they would turn up anyway just to see if we are still gonna go ahead with it regardless, and then surely we would have put ourselves in an even worse situation?[/quote]

yeah its better for you and them if they know what to expect though.
you don't want 12 police cars turning up at your house thinking there's gonna be 1000 people there cos the rig is so loud...which is what happened to me!
all the ravers shat their pants before hiding in the bushes. it was funny, and the police couldn't shut our party down, but it could've been avoided.

dd528 · Post by **dd528** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:05 pm

TightLife wrote:ah thats seems quite easy then, the area where we are doing it is mostly countryside so hopefully we should be able to find someone sound enough to let us use a bit of land if we tidy up afterwards. surely though if the noise is disturbing people surrounding the land, we could still get grief even if we have permission to use the land?

There's all kind of public disorder issues you might get into if people on surrounding farms/villages or whatever are being disturbed by your party. I've never put on an event like this myself, but talking to people who have, there seem to be three major issues. First is finding a venue. Second is making it as unlikely as possible that you'll get shut down. That means taking measures that mean people are unlikely to complain, and also making sure that the police don't get the idea that there's gonna be widespread dealing/violence/terrorism/etc going down. Depending what part of the country you're in, the local cops will have had more or less experience of this kind of thing, so they might be quite understanding, or they might be dead narrow-minded.

The third is making sure that, whether you get shut down or not, the fallout from the party will be as light as possible. That last one means you need to give some thought to basic health and safety & security measures, and make sure people from your party aren't gonna trespass on adjacent land and take a shit in local people's front garden, that kind of thing.

There are guides to putting on this kind of event up online. This is one I found with a quick google:

http://www.urban75.com/Rave/party.html

But I know I've read much more indepth ones in the past. Have a search round for free party forums. You might get more specific advice from people who've been through it all before.

The one piece of advice I hear repeated most often is "plan as if every possible thing is going to go wrong, cos most of them probably will".

Good luck mate.

wascal · Post by **wascal** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:11 pm

I wouldn't post about it under a profile with a link to a Soundcloud page with your full name and location listed tbh, just in case you have to do it illegally :/

Like TomPlanetMu said, ask on SJ

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:29 pm

remember also when dealing with the police to have someone reasonably compos on hand to deal with them. if you can have someone well out in front of the party to speak to the police in a polite manner, stopping them getting too close and saying "yes officer, we'll turn it down a bit now and have it all shut off by X o clock" they may very well leave you alone for a while. if they saunter into the middle of a bunch of monged out ravers who will a)shite their pants b) run around going 'the police are here! hide your drugs!' c)think they are well-cool anarcho types and start going 'fuck the police' and lobbing bricks at the panda car then things will turn out very differently.

as for sound, it carries miles. literally. holding it in a woods is good, trees dampen the sound a lot. a quarry is even better.

_boring · Post by **_boring** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:17 pm

mmm quarry rave

ngyoshi · Post by **ngyoshi** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:58 pm

if u wont to put on a ware house party then find one that has people squatting in it so that it has a section 36, if your doing it outside do it on public land, abandoned land or just in the middle of nowhere.

in terms of getting it shut down the best thing to do is get as many people there before the cops turn up, if u have a few hundred they wont shut it down.

if the cops are giving you grief and take your details make shore u get there ID number and name.

dont post it on squat juice as the cops go threw it regularly.

have fun

mattrelton · Post by **mattrelton** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:37 pm

Basically, if the police want to shut it down, they will find a 'justifiable' reason, and will shut you down on the spot.
So the best way to handle it is to just be reasonable. When (/if) the police come, talk to them like they are decent people, and follow their instructions if they aren't to unreasonable.

rectaldubz · Post by **rectaldubz** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:50 pm

whatever you do dont have a field party without the farmers knowing, i was going to go to this one and luckily didnt, anyways it turns out the farmers were nuts and ended up letting there dogs loose on the innocent party goers ripping one girls leg muscle off, GRUESOME shizzle thats my only piece of advice.

ruaridh · Post by **ruaridh** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:03 pm

i duno what your surrounding area is like but you could try using natural sound barriers to channel the sound....you know like mountains or at the bottom of a cliff...mind you though bass does go everywhere!

bob crunkhouse · Post by **bob crunkhouse** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:51 pm

dd528 wrote:
TightLife wrote:ah thats seems quite easy then, the area where we are doing it is mostly countryside so hopefully we should be able to find someone sound enough to let us use a bit of land if we tidy up afterwards. surely though if the noise is disturbing people surrounding the land, we could still get grief even if we have permission to use the land?
There's all kind of public disorder issues you might get into if people on surrounding farms/villages or whatever are being disturbed by your party. I've never put on an event like this myself, but talking to people who have, there seem to be three major issues. First is finding a venue. Second is making it as unlikely as possible that you'll get shut down. That means taking measures that mean people are unlikely to complain, and also making sure that the police don't get the idea that there's gonna be widespread dealing/violence/terrorism/etc going down. Depending what part of the country you're in, the local cops will have had more or less experience of this kind of thing, so they might be quite understanding, or they might be dead narrow-minded.

The third is making sure that, whether you get shut down or not, the fallout from the party will be as light as possible. That last one means you need to give some thought to basic health and safety & security measures, and make sure people from your party aren't gonna trespass on adjacent land and take a shit in local people's front garden, that kind of thing.

There are guides to putting on this kind of event up online. This is one I found with a quick google:

http://www.urban75.com/Rave/party.html

But I know I've read much more indepth ones in the past. Have a search round for free party forums. You might get more specific advice from people who've been through it all before.

The one piece of advice I hear repeated most often is "plan as if every possible thing is going to go wrong, cos most of them probably will".

Good luck mate.

\

Good link. Thanks.

Anyone know any good warehouses in London? PM me.

aeroplane_dope · Post by **aeroplane_dope** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:06 pm

in my experience (I've helped a dozen of these raves in different parts of the UK), its better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Saying that though, it would be a good idea to do the following:-

Form some sort of membership so you can regulate the kinda people coming to your rave. One thing that can ruin a rave is unwelcome gatecrashers and especially violent or thieving ones.

Don't announce the location until 10 hours before the start and make sure people (preferably members) know this is a strict rule. This means the police don't really have long enough to find out enough info on it or get any warrant and prepare for anything before it happens. This will then mean that the most they will probably do is confiscate your cables to the PA because they don't have the man power or vehicles to shift the whole lot - let alone be bothered with the paper work.

Make sure you have lots of fuel for the generators. I was at an underground rave that lasted until 10am and we had to stop at least 3 times because fuel kept running out. Try n get an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to protect expensive gear or gear that relies on computer memory.

Make sure the place is well lit, even if it means candles (away from anything flammable). I've seen a lot of nasty accidents due to inadequate lighting and as soon as someone has to be taken to hospital, the police get a whole lot more serious about the situation.

You will need some sort of stewards or security throughout the night just to make sure nobody goes astray + someone in charge of drinks or better still, get someone completely unrelated to the event organisers to sell booze. That way, they can make a mad profit but when the cops turn up, you can just say you had nothing to do with it.

Underground raves are a dealers paradise so make sure if there are dealers, they've been given authority to do so by the organisers to avoid rival dealers from turning up and causing unnecessary shit. If possible, no riskay substances either (anything you can easily overdose on is not a good idea).

Finally, have a good time and don't stress out too much. When was the last time you heard someone getting locked up or sent to court for an illegal rave? The cops have more serious stuff to deal with.

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:52 pm

whoa i really didnt expect this many useful replies, thanks a lot guys!

Bob Crunkhouse, thanks for the link, i saw this myself after a quick google, but the tongue in cheek writing style leaves me feeling a bit dubious about it...

im not too bothered about legal repercussions personally, the only reason i want to make sure we are covered is we have got our hands on a reasonable system for very little money, if not free, and if the system was to be confiscated or destroyed or anything like that i would feel immensely guilty, as im sure you understand. i just want to make sure we have as many bases as possible covered!

im thinking if we have the main points the police are liekly to give us hassle on covered, then the police are likely to think "ok, these guys have a decent idea of what they are doing, they have taken the time to do this as legally as possible" and hopefuly let us just get on with it. if they show up and see that we have got permission for the land, adequate lighting, fire extinguishers, first aid kits etc we should be sorted. i dont think the police in our area would have had much experience with this kind of thing, so they are probably less likely to pull us up on more obscure laws we could be breaking... either this or they will come down on us like a ton of bricks haha..

location wise, i think we might possibly be looking at a disused quarry... does anyone know what the laws would be covering this? failing that i think we are gonna try and use a field, hopefully far enough away from any residential areas to cause any disturbance... although it looks (sounds?) like this could prove difficult!

thanks once again for all your input, each and every comment has been useful, big up DSF!

making an illegal rave legal?

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