"War on drugs cannot be won"

Whistla · Post by **Whistla** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:22 pm

regulation could take many forms, and the current people fighting against drugs wud be turned to regulating the companies that would form that import and distribute various drugs (something like "The National Recreational Drug Management Office". take it out of the criminal underworld and make it all open and transparent, like cigarettes and booze and pharmachuticals.
im sure a big registered extasy manufacturer (for example) would quite happily grass an illegal competitor who was damaging its business. thus shutting down the illegal trade from within.
let people make informed decisions based on the facts and not based on govt propaganda.
the amount of tax the govt could make out of drugs could pay for 10 Iraqs, or 100 Hospitals +

trap · Post by **trap** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:33 pm

They should go for the more common drugs, if you ask me. Not only would legalising marijuana and MDMA (with the correct system in place) be good for drug user's benefits, but it would completely get rid of this horrible stigma that certain drugs are oh-so bad.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:39 pm

im all for legalizing ganja but MDMA being legal would open up a world of shit and would probably end up getting weed illegal again.

.onelove. · Post by **.onelove.** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:56 pm

Trap wrote:They should go for the more common drugs, if you ask me. Not only would legalising marijuana and MDMA (with the correct system in place) be good for drug user's benefits, but it would completely get rid of this horrible stigma that certain drugs are oh-so bad.

Indeed, cant understand why being happily content off you tits on piills will give concerned looks, while someone being hammered from binge drinking will constitute 'LOL WHAT A CHARACTER'

trap · Post by **trap** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:31 pm

.OneLove. wrote:Indeed, cant understand why being happily content off you tits on piills will give concerned looks, while someone being hammered from binge drinking will constitute 'LOL WHAT A CHARACTER'

I've been preaching this forever.

Picture this: imagine alcohol is a drug - well known about as something like ecstasy, and with the same kind of knowledge of the effects it has on you.

Now imagine this - a guy you suspect to be drunk, coming down the streets toward you. Swaggering all over the place and slurring their words.

It would be fucking scary as hell.

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:51 pm

I cannot see how any country with a pro-choice policy on abortion can ban ANY drug from a completely logical standpoint.

whygohome10 · Post by **whygohome10** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:02 pm

i gave up this argument a looooong time ago

it's so frustrating it makes my headspin....

ottolag · Post by **ottolag** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:30 pm

you know how every so often at a night you're walking through the crowd and the lights suddenly flash bright for a bit longer than normal and you can see everybodies faces. you look across and see that guy in the corner with the eyes rolling back into his head and his gurn is so hard that he looks like a camel trying to bite both his ears off at the same time

thats why drugs are illegal. they make people RETARDED

trap · Post by **trap** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:37 pm

Alcohol - the most effective way to crowd your judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I love getting barrtered as much as the next guy, but you know when you see someone who's a fucing state when they're wankered, when it's someone fucking crying in a pool of their own vomit or some shit - they rob you of your dignity.

Cause and effect.

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:17 pm

Heroin should be legal and it's much worse than alcohol.

The fact that any government owns your body and can decide what you put into it and what you don't is the problem... not if shit is bad for you. I mean, it's illegal to kill yourself? Hence why I don't agree with big campaigns to 'educate' on drugs, either. Your body. Your responsibility. Your responsibility to educate yourself.

Leave it to the free market instead of wasting tax payer's cash on educating the masses on drugs. Responsible tax payers who DO educate themselves shouldn't be forced to pay for people that don't. Your body, you take care of it, or you kill it. Once in a free market system, drug crimes will go down and the sale of drugs will be subject to the free market's own regulations (the fact that drugs are illegal is the reason why organized crime deals drugs: when alcohol was banned in the 1930s, it singlehandedly created organized crime in the USA), that's why drug dealers are happiest with drug laws, their business is unregulated.

Since people have a right to know what they ingest and, dealers will be required by law to add the ingredients and side-effects (makes for much better MDMA, doesn't it?) and they can't fluctuate the prices per user, drugs will be safer, cheaper and less people will commit crimes to get money to feed their addiction. Various companies will compete in the drug market, so drugs will only become progressively safer, more potent and cheaper.

So many people turn to the government for answers, while the people themselves are usually the answer. In a free market system without corporations and without big governments being in bed with those corporations, you'll have a much freer and cheaper society, without the tyranny of wealthy that anti-capitalists just love to preach about.

However, policies aren't going to change any time soon, so best embrace it for now. I get that the occasional discussion is fine and all, but people are so emotionally invested in legalizing certain drugs.... best to realize that it's not gonna happen any time soon. It's more likely for drugs to become illegal than legal. I think all drugs should be legal from a moral standpoint, but I'm not much of a drug user, so I don't really care a lot as far as it affecting me personally goes.

DustyBunzzz · Post by **DustyBunzzz** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:37 pm

i think they should just legalize weed. becasue thats easy to do. keep everything else illegal like it is becasue it would get to complicated and everyone would go mental. plus if u want somthing, in todays world, its not that hard to get even if it is illegal so i dont see what everyone is complaining about.

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:48 pm

smokeit wrote:i think they should just legalize weed. becasue thats easy to do. keep everything else illegal like it is becasue it would get to complicated and everyone would go mental. plus if u want somthing, in todays world, its not that hard to get even if it is illegal so i dont see what everyone is complaining about.

Because when drugs are illegal, they're more dangerous than when they're legal. It's dealers. They can be as shady as they want to be because they don't subscribe to the regulation of a free market (sounds contradictory, but it's not) and are generally, below the legal and social radar. The prohibition of the 1930s created organized crime in the USA, for example.

alfie · Post by **alfie** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:08 pm

it always makes me laugh when people complain that it's only ever gangsters selling drugs- well.......

alfie · Post by **alfie** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:10 pm

Genevieve wrote:Heroin should be legal and it's much worse than alcohol.

The fact that any government owns your body and can decide what you put into it and what you don't is the problem... not if shit is bad for you. I mean, it's illegal to kill yourself? Hence why I don't agree with big campaigns to 'educate' on drugs, either. Your body. Your responsibility. Your responsibility to educate yourself.

Leave it to the free market instead of wasting tax payer's cash on educating the masses on drugs. Responsible tax payers who DO educate themselves shouldn't be forced to pay for people that don't. Your body, you take care of it, or you kill it. Once in a free market system, drug crimes will go down and the sale of drugs will be subject to the free market's own regulations (the fact that drugs are illegal is the reason why organized crime deals drugs: when alcohol was banned in the 1930s, it singlehandedly created organized crime in the USA), that's why drug dealers are happiest with drug laws, their business is unregulated.

Since people have a right to know what they ingest and, dealers will be required by law to add the ingredients and side-effects (makes for much better MDMA, doesn't it?) and they can't fluctuate the prices per user, drugs will be safer, cheaper and less people will commit crimes to get money to feed their addiction. Various companies will compete in the drug market, so drugs will only become progressively safer, more potent and cheaper.

So many people turn to the government for answers, while the people themselves are usually the answer. In a free market system without corporations and without big governments being in bed with those corporations, you'll have a much freer and cheaper society, without the tyranny of wealthy that anti-capitalists just love to preach about.

However, policies aren't going to change any time soon, so best embrace it for now. I get that the occasional discussion is fine and all, but people are so emotionally invested in legalizing certain drugs.... best to realize that it's not gonna happen any time soon. It's more likely for drugs to become illegal than legal. I think all drugs should be legal from a moral standpoint, but I'm not much of a drug user, so I don't really care a lot as far as it affecting me personally goes.

a free market with no corporations? how would that work in practice then?

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:18 pm

alfie wrote:
Genevieve wrote:Heroin should be legal and it's much worse than alcohol.

The fact that any government owns your body and can decide what you put into it and what you don't is the problem... not if shit is bad for you. I mean, it's illegal to kill yourself? Hence why I don't agree with big campaigns to 'educate' on drugs, either. Your body. Your responsibility. Your responsibility to educate yourself.

Leave it to the free market instead of wasting tax payer's cash on educating the masses on drugs. Responsible tax payers who DO educate themselves shouldn't be forced to pay for people that don't. Your body, you take care of it, or you kill it. Once in a free market system, drug crimes will go down and the sale of drugs will be subject to the free market's own regulations (the fact that drugs are illegal is the reason why organized crime deals drugs: when alcohol was banned in the 1930s, it singlehandedly created organized crime in the USA), that's why drug dealers are happiest with drug laws, their business is unregulated.

Since people have a right to know what they ingest and, dealers will be required by law to add the ingredients and side-effects (makes for much better MDMA, doesn't it?) and they can't fluctuate the prices per user, drugs will be safer, cheaper and less people will commit crimes to get money to feed their addiction. Various companies will compete in the drug market, so drugs will only become progressively safer, more potent and cheaper.

So many people turn to the government for answers, while the people themselves are usually the answer. In a free market system without corporations and without big governments being in bed with those corporations, you'll have a much freer and cheaper society, without the tyranny of wealthy that anti-capitalists just love to preach about.

However, policies aren't going to change any time soon, so best embrace it for now. I get that the occasional discussion is fine and all, but people are so emotionally invested in legalizing certain drugs.... best to realize that it's not gonna happen any time soon. It's more likely for drugs to become illegal than legal. I think all drugs should be legal from a moral standpoint, but I'm not much of a drug user, so I don't really care a lot as far as it affecting me personally goes.
a free market with no corporations? how would that work in practice then?

Companies; yes.
Corporations; no.

Corporations are a certain form of business. A corporation is treated as a legal person where none of the heads of it are personally liable for what the corporation does.

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:21 pm

alfie wrote:it always makes me laugh when people complain that it's only ever gangsters selling drugs- well.......

I don't think anyone said nor implied it.

Coppola · Post by **Coppola** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:29 pm

I fully agree that (most) drugs should be made legal, however in a society where they have illegal for so long, I think it would be very hard to legalize them all again.

If they were legal from the start then we wouldn't have as many problems at all.

alfie · Post by **alfie** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:32 pm

Genevieve wrote:
alfie wrote:it always makes me laugh when people complain that it's only ever gangsters selling drugs- well.......
I don't think anyone said nor implied it.

it wasn't aimed at anyone on here, it's something i've heard said on tv/in public. a pretty ignorant statement either way

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:40 pm

alfie wrote:
Genevieve wrote:
alfie wrote:it always makes me laugh when people complain that it's only ever gangsters selling drugs- well.......
I don't think anyone said nor implied it.
it wasn't aimed at anyone on here, it's something i've heard said on tv/in public. a pretty ignorant statement either way

Well, like... there obviously IS a link between illegal drugs and organized crime, which would undoubtedly decrease when drugs become legal. Though in general, when it comes to importing drugs or creating certain hard drugs, I think that organized crime has to be involved one way or another... So even if a dealer isn't necessarily from the 'mob' and just someone trying to make a living, it all has to start somewhere.

Do you agree that legal drugs = less organized crime? Granted, when drugs are legal, criminals will move on to people trade and other things, but it'll decrease nonetheless.

BEN? wrote:I fully agree that (most) drugs should be made legal, however in a society where they have illegal for so long, I think it would be very hard to legalize them all again.

If they were legal from the start then we wouldn't have as many problems at all.

Completely agreed, I think they should be legalized, but if it does happen, it should be a gradual process of decriminalization. Start with weed and offer it only in moderation, until its fully legalized.. etc. Stuff like that. At least a 20 year process. Baby steps.

alfie · Post by **alfie** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:38 pm

Genevieve wrote:
alfie wrote:
Genevieve wrote:
alfie wrote:it always makes me laugh when people complain that it's only ever gangsters selling drugs- well.......
I don't think anyone said nor implied it.
it wasn't aimed at anyone on here, it's something i've heard said on tv/in public. a pretty ignorant statement either way
Well, like... there obviously IS a link between illegal drugs and organized crime, which would undoubtedly decrease when drugs become legal. Though in general, when it comes to importing drugs or creating certain hard drugs, I think that organized crime has to be involved one way or another... So even if a dealer isn't necessarily from the 'mob' and just someone trying to make a living, it all has to start somewhere.

Do you agree that legal drugs = less organized crime? Granted, when drugs are legal, criminals will move on to people trade and other things, but it'll decrease nonetheless.

BEN? wrote:I fully agree that (most) drugs should be made legal, however in a society where they have illegal for so long, I think it would be very hard to legalize them all again.

If they were legal from the start then we wouldn't have as many problems at all.
Completely agreed, I think they should be legalized, but if it does happen, it should be a gradual process of decriminalization. Start with weed and offer it only in moderation, until its fully legalized.. etc. Stuff like that. At least a 20 year process. Baby steps.

i think you misunderstand me, i agree with you! i was just saying that i find it funny how people complain that the only people selling drugs are gangsters, when it's a given due to prohibition. legalise drugs and it'd be sold by businessmen, the same as any other commodity.

prohibition gives the chance of huge profits and just means drugs organisations get stronger and stronger- they pretty much run stateless nations like the guinea countries in west africa now. i think some drugs are literally worth more than their weight in gold now? madness.

i honestly don't think there's an argument against legalisation in principle that stacks up

"War on drugs cannot be won"

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