You can't be refused treatment at the emergency room. That's why we have the poor clogging up the emergency room with the sniffles and shit.bassmonk wrote:Ah good old democratic America,where they don't discriminate on the basis of age,where a 15 year old has as much chance as a pensioner to be denied healthcare providing they're poor enough.Land of the Free IndeedPhase 2 wrote:These Republicans make me angrier than a yak in heat. Check out the latest round of lies - attacking the NHS and saying we let people die! wtf?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/au ... can-health
Slickly produced television advertisements trumpet the alleged failures of the NHS's 61-year tradition of tax-funded healthcare. To the dismay of British healthcare professionals, US critics have accused the service of putting an "Orwellian" financial cap on the value on human life, of allowing elderly people to die untreated and, in one case, for driving a despairing dental patient to mend his teeth with superglue.
."[/b]
Healthcare in the USA
Forum rules
Please read and follow this sub-forum's specific rules listed HERE, as well as our sitewide rules listed HERE.
Link to the Secret Ninja Sessions community ustream channel - info in this thread
Please read and follow this sub-forum's specific rules listed HERE, as well as our sitewide rules listed HERE.
Link to the Secret Ninja Sessions community ustream channel - info in this thread
-
djelements
- Posts: 6830
- Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:25 pm
- Location: First dsf male lesbian/Savannah, GA
http://soundcloud.com/helixdelay
kejk wrote:I prefer the pooper
In the US they pay 18% of their GDP for 60% coverage.
In the UK we pay 11% for 100% coverage.
Hmmm...
In the UK we pay 11% for 100% coverage.
Hmmm...
Cerebral @ Area || London || 12th September || iTAL tEK, Phase 2 (live) ft. MC Tayong || Dubstep/IDM/breaks
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
I believe in some form of nationalized health care, since I think that every person deserves medical treatment (the way some libertarians back governments taking care of the infrastructure and not a person's health sometimes boggles my mind). But both nationalized and private health care are a double edged sword and I feel that most people who completely back nationalized health care don't consider the full picture too much and that people who completely oppose it don't really understand it.
I feel like every person has the right for medical treatment, regardless of their income and I think it should be a government protected right. But holding the government responsible for your health is, pardon the pun, unhealthy at its core.
I think that in my idealistic implantation of universal health care, it would only be limited to people who care for their body. No alcoholics, no smokers, no junkies, no obese people.. period.
Simply because putting the burden on so many people to pay for your medical bills even though you don't care for your body at all is kinda vile to me.
This is not an attack against smokers. I feel like people should be able to do with their body whatever they want. I'm just kinda morally opposed to knowing that shit'll hit the fan in the long run and then wanting everyone else to help out something you can avoid yourself.
I feel like every person has the right for medical treatment, regardless of their income and I think it should be a government protected right. But holding the government responsible for your health is, pardon the pun, unhealthy at its core.
I think that in my idealistic implantation of universal health care, it would only be limited to people who care for their body. No alcoholics, no smokers, no junkies, no obese people.. period.
Simply because putting the burden on so many people to pay for your medical bills even though you don't care for your body at all is kinda vile to me.
This is not an attack against smokers. I feel like people should be able to do with their body whatever they want. I'm just kinda morally opposed to knowing that shit'll hit the fan in the long run and then wanting everyone else to help out something you can avoid yourself.
namsayin
:'0
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12 ... and_alive/
In perhaps the most amusing effort to discredit US President Barack Obama's plan for nationalized health care - if not the most ridiculous - US financial newspaper Investor's Business Daily has said that if Stephen Hawking were British, he would be dead.
"The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof, are legendary," read a recent editorial from the paper. "The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror script...
"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
The paper has since been notified that Hawking is both British and still among the living. And it has edited the editorial, acknowledging that the original version incorrectly represented the whereabouts of perhaps the world's most famous scientific mind. But it has not acknowledged that its mention of Hawking misrepresented the NHS as well.
"I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS," Hawking told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
The best you can say about Investor's Business Daily is that unlike US radio talk host Rush Limbaugh, it has not compared Obama's health care logo to a swastika.
In perhaps the most amusing effort to discredit US President Barack Obama's plan for nationalized health care - if not the most ridiculous - US financial newspaper Investor's Business Daily has said that if Stephen Hawking were British, he would be dead.
"The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof, are legendary," read a recent editorial from the paper. "The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror script...
"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
The paper has since been notified that Hawking is both British and still among the living. And it has edited the editorial, acknowledging that the original version incorrectly represented the whereabouts of perhaps the world's most famous scientific mind. But it has not acknowledged that its mention of Hawking misrepresented the NHS as well.
"I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS," Hawking told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
The best you can say about Investor's Business Daily is that unlike US radio talk host Rush Limbaugh, it has not compared Obama's health care logo to a swastika.
Cerebral @ Area || London || 12th September || iTAL tEK, Phase 2 (live) ft. MC Tayong || Dubstep/IDM/breaks
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
-
resinteeth
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:36 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Surely that's precisely what insurance is?ResinTeeth wrote:I'd much rather just see an across the board reform of insurance companies and the laws that govern them as opposed to getting government run healthcare that you still have to pay for even if you don't use it.
Cerebral @ Area || London || 12th September || iTAL tEK, Phase 2 (live) ft. MC Tayong || Dubstep/IDM/breaks
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
I'll type this out more for my own understanding, but also from people who don't really understand whats going on with care in the U.S. From what I've seen we have these two problems:
Insurance companies giving healthcare up until a certain point
Taxpayers eating the costs of healthcare for the uninsured
Most people that have jobs in the U.S get healthcare service from their employer, who usually strike group deals with insurance companies. you get a certain amount of coverage, like all your doctors visits are paid for besides a 20 dollar co pay or something similar.
Thats all well and good, until you get into a car crash or something major, thats puts you in the hospital for a good amount of time and you end up with a bill thats 10k+. This is where the insurance companies get grimy and theyll say something like theyll cover you 2k but the other 8k is out of your pocket. If you can't pay it off then theyll freaking garnish your wages, sometimes the bill is big enough that it drives people into bankruptcy
Theyll pull out all sorts of stipulations, based on things like weight, age, race, previous health conditions, to get out of paying. Every dollar they deny you is another dollar added to their bottom line/ These companies are all private run so they can pull whatever grimy practices they like.
The second problem is the uninsured. Alot of people dont have jobs, or have jobs where the employer doesnt have a healthcare plan. Going to the private companies without the group rate means your going to have to pay higher premiums, which alot of people cannot afford. so they have to go to state, government run clinics for treatment, which are usually good quality, but hella crowded.
The pay a smaller portion for their care at these places but the rest goes into federal and state taxes, which everybody pays, these costs even go into the costs of the goods, and the tax rate on goods.
I think what Obama wants to do is too make it mandatory for all employers to offer healthcare programs, and at the same time create a government run insurance company with lower rates and wider care coverage than the current private companies. In theory this would create greater competition among the private providers, forcing them to cut their premiums and offer better coverage. I still haven't figured out how he plans to fix the problem of taxpayers eating the healthcare costs of the uninsured. If i'm wrong on any of these points feel free to correct me.
Edit: Just to add - I heard this story where a woman was supposed to get surgery for life saving breast cancer treatment before it spread to her brain. the very DAY she was supposed to get the surgery her health insurance provider dropped her coverage. Its f'd up man these private companies. And the right wingers and fox news are all in their pocket
Insurance companies giving healthcare up until a certain point
Taxpayers eating the costs of healthcare for the uninsured
Most people that have jobs in the U.S get healthcare service from their employer, who usually strike group deals with insurance companies. you get a certain amount of coverage, like all your doctors visits are paid for besides a 20 dollar co pay or something similar.
Thats all well and good, until you get into a car crash or something major, thats puts you in the hospital for a good amount of time and you end up with a bill thats 10k+. This is where the insurance companies get grimy and theyll say something like theyll cover you 2k but the other 8k is out of your pocket. If you can't pay it off then theyll freaking garnish your wages, sometimes the bill is big enough that it drives people into bankruptcy
Theyll pull out all sorts of stipulations, based on things like weight, age, race, previous health conditions, to get out of paying. Every dollar they deny you is another dollar added to their bottom line/ These companies are all private run so they can pull whatever grimy practices they like.
The second problem is the uninsured. Alot of people dont have jobs, or have jobs where the employer doesnt have a healthcare plan. Going to the private companies without the group rate means your going to have to pay higher premiums, which alot of people cannot afford. so they have to go to state, government run clinics for treatment, which are usually good quality, but hella crowded.
The pay a smaller portion for their care at these places but the rest goes into federal and state taxes, which everybody pays, these costs even go into the costs of the goods, and the tax rate on goods.
I think what Obama wants to do is too make it mandatory for all employers to offer healthcare programs, and at the same time create a government run insurance company with lower rates and wider care coverage than the current private companies. In theory this would create greater competition among the private providers, forcing them to cut their premiums and offer better coverage. I still haven't figured out how he plans to fix the problem of taxpayers eating the healthcare costs of the uninsured. If i'm wrong on any of these points feel free to correct me.
Edit: Just to add - I heard this story where a woman was supposed to get surgery for life saving breast cancer treatment before it spread to her brain. the very DAY she was supposed to get the surgery her health insurance provider dropped her coverage. Its f'd up man these private companies. And the right wingers and fox news are all in their pocket
Last edited by tronn on Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/inte ... 908141981/
FAT, stupid Americans with no health insurance have attacked plans to stop them dying so easily.
'Git your free healthcare givin' ass offa ma property'
Across the United States poor people who are told what to think by television said President Obama's plan to give them free healthcare could lead to them being treated in a hospital that was not run by the Chicago Mafia.
Bill McKay, a retired shitkicker and Fox News analyst, from Kentucky, said: "I would rather replace my own hip using a rusty spoon than wait two months to have it done in a communist hospital, by some coffee-coloured homophobe. doctor who will then eat my unborn child to celebrate the end of Ramadan."
Barbara Hayes, a God-fearer, from Arkansas, added: "Ah see'd some woman from England on the Fox News sayin' her muslim communist doctor would only give her the good medicines if she denounced Jesus. Ah ain't denouncin' Jesus fir nobody, no siree."
But Dr Tom Logan, head of public health at the Institute for Studies, said: "The key difference between the United States and Britain is that we treat poor people rather than leaving them to die in a skip.
"It may take a few weeks or even months, and not everyone is happy about that, but we do at least all agree that it is marginally better than the skip."
He added: "Rich people have a thing called 'BUPA'. No-one knows what it stands for, though some people say it sounds as if it might be Indian. But it does mean you get your own room, quick treatment, nice food, and you get fawned over by nurses who were just that bit too sexy for the NHS."
Meanwhile Conservative leader David Cameron was forced to defend the NHS after Tory MEP Daniel Hannan's ego told Fox News that Britain's health system was 'worse than a lifetime of anal warts'.
A Conservative spokesman said: "We're not really sure what Daniel Hannan's problem is with the NHS. Perhaps they were unable to save his hair."
Stephen Malley, professor of American History at Reading University, added: "To be fair to Fox News and the Republicans, they do have a principled objection to socialised medicine based largely on the fact that a black man won the election.
"The thing you must always remember about the American right wing is that they are basically the baddies in a film."
FAT, stupid Americans with no health insurance have attacked plans to stop them dying so easily.
'Git your free healthcare givin' ass offa ma property'
Across the United States poor people who are told what to think by television said President Obama's plan to give them free healthcare could lead to them being treated in a hospital that was not run by the Chicago Mafia.
Bill McKay, a retired shitkicker and Fox News analyst, from Kentucky, said: "I would rather replace my own hip using a rusty spoon than wait two months to have it done in a communist hospital, by some coffee-coloured homophobe. doctor who will then eat my unborn child to celebrate the end of Ramadan."
Barbara Hayes, a God-fearer, from Arkansas, added: "Ah see'd some woman from England on the Fox News sayin' her muslim communist doctor would only give her the good medicines if she denounced Jesus. Ah ain't denouncin' Jesus fir nobody, no siree."
But Dr Tom Logan, head of public health at the Institute for Studies, said: "The key difference between the United States and Britain is that we treat poor people rather than leaving them to die in a skip.
"It may take a few weeks or even months, and not everyone is happy about that, but we do at least all agree that it is marginally better than the skip."
He added: "Rich people have a thing called 'BUPA'. No-one knows what it stands for, though some people say it sounds as if it might be Indian. But it does mean you get your own room, quick treatment, nice food, and you get fawned over by nurses who were just that bit too sexy for the NHS."
Meanwhile Conservative leader David Cameron was forced to defend the NHS after Tory MEP Daniel Hannan's ego told Fox News that Britain's health system was 'worse than a lifetime of anal warts'.
A Conservative spokesman said: "We're not really sure what Daniel Hannan's problem is with the NHS. Perhaps they were unable to save his hair."
Stephen Malley, professor of American History at Reading University, added: "To be fair to Fox News and the Republicans, they do have a principled objection to socialised medicine based largely on the fact that a black man won the election.
"The thing you must always remember about the American right wing is that they are basically the baddies in a film."
Cerebral @ Area || London || 12th September || iTAL tEK, Phase 2 (live) ft. MC Tayong || Dubstep/IDM/breaks
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
-
resinteeth
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:36 pm
- Location: North Carolina
I suppose what I'm saying is you would be paying for the public option (and all it entails) even if you already have and prefer private insurance. Either way I have a copy of the bill and will be reading through it.Phase 2 wrote:Surely that's precisely what insurance is?ResinTeeth wrote:I'd much rather just see an across the board reform of insurance companies and the laws that govern them as opposed to getting government run healthcare that you still have to pay for even if you don't use it.
-
hurlingdervish
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 pm
everyone is like "i don't want my taxes to go to helping people stay alive"
but the same people don't have a problem with their money going to pointless wars....
a fraction of the money wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been used to reform healthcare several times over.
THAT my friends is hypocrisy.
If we just call Doctors Defense Contractors and the terrorists are cancer cells I think reform would come quicker.
but the same people don't have a problem with their money going to pointless wars....
a fraction of the money wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been used to reform healthcare several times over.
THAT my friends is hypocrisy.
If we just call Doctors Defense Contractors and the terrorists are cancer cells I think reform would come quicker.
-
resinteeth
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:36 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Yah I definetely dont have a problem with part of my paycheck being used to kill peoplehurlingdervish wrote:everyone is like "i don't want my taxes to go to helping people stay alive"
but the same people don't have a problem with their money going to pointless wars....
a fraction of the money wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been used to reform healthcare several times over.
THAT my friends is hypocrisy.
If we just call Doctors Defense Contractors and the terrorists are cancer cells I think reform would come quicker.
-
hurlingdervish
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 pm
than you agree that the money could be better spent elsewhere. and if you think that the money shouldn't be spent at all, fine i understand that, but often it is the case that people support war but not cheaper health care or even free healthcare.tronn wrote:
Yah I definetely dont have a problem with part of my paycheck being used to kill people
besides i was speaking generally not at anyone in particular.
mostly towards the republican "deytookRjawbz" guys that seem to be dominating the US news channels in their town hall "meetings"
everyone can say "oh they don't deserve the help, let them die if they don't have the money" but honestly who are you to say that? the money exists to take care of the problem IF we get rid of needless defense spending, so WHY NOT. there's no other reason besides the "not with my taxes" or "they put themselves in that position"
you could say "its not that simple"
but it is.
stop wasting time and money on intimidation and the new terrorist seeking robots
start taking care of people in our own country
and ridiculous amounts of money saved in the process.
honestly i think the biggest fear people have about this is hobos being healthy....
so i will refer to the anti-healthcare reform argument as "spoiled-hobo syndrome" from now on.
I love how saving lives will destroy America, but to be against murdering others or having guns is unpatriotic.hurlingdervish wrote:everyone is like "i don't want my taxes to go to helping people stay alive"
but the same people don't have a problem with their money going to pointless wars....
a fraction of the money wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been used to reform healthcare several times over.
THAT my friends is hypocrisy.
If we just call Doctors Defense Contractors and the terrorists are cancer cells I think reform would come quicker.
Cerebral @ Area || London || 12th September || iTAL tEK, Phase 2 (live) ft. MC Tayong || Dubstep/IDM/breaks
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/ThisIsPhase2
E-mail me your tracks - cerebralnights (at) gmail.com
So much bullshit in this thread!
You don't think your taxes should go towards helping poorer people afford healthcare? Are you mad.
Even if they chose to be poor (which a lot of people don't) they have less money but they still deserve health care and I'm sure richer people can help them out a bit. It's not like they are asking rich people to buy poor people houses in rich neighborhoods and 40" TVs.
If I was a millionaire I would donate money to the NHS it is a brilliant service.
You don't think your taxes should go towards helping poorer people afford healthcare? Are you mad.
Even if they chose to be poor (which a lot of people don't) they have less money but they still deserve health care and I'm sure richer people can help them out a bit. It's not like they are asking rich people to buy poor people houses in rich neighborhoods and 40" TVs.
If I was a millionaire I would donate money to the NHS it is a brilliant service.
http://www.mixcloud.com/Etc/etc-no-6
-
resinteeth
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:36 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Last time I checked murder is still frowned upon in America and there aren't a whole lot of people still left that are in favor of the war. Also, I quite like guns and don't see any logical reason to get rid of them. The second amendment exists for a reason.Phase 2 wrote:I love how saving lives will destroy America, but to be against murdering others or having guns is unpatriotic.hurlingdervish wrote:everyone is like "i don't want my taxes to go to helping people stay alive"
but the same people don't have a problem with their money going to pointless wars....
a fraction of the money wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been used to reform healthcare several times over.
THAT my friends is hypocrisy.
If we just call Doctors Defense Contractors and the terrorists are cancer cells I think reform would come quicker.
I think it would be nice if more European people could do a 5 year stint living in America so they have a better idea of what they are talking about before they go blabbering on about "fat, stupid americunts and their politics" on the internet, shit gets tiresome to read.
I don't have any problem with poorer people having healthcare. The shit should be affordable for anyone to have but I don't think you need to have government provided healthcare to have affordable healthcare. We should remove the exclusion of people with pre-existing conditions etc. from current standards and just make private healthcare work, is that so impossible?
-
hurlingdervish
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 pm
You would be suprised how many people actually support the war orResinTeeth wrote:
Last time I checked murder is still frowned upon in America and there aren't a whole lot of people still left that are in favor of the war. Also, I quite like guns and don't see any logical reason to get rid of them. The second amendment exists for a reason.
"whatever the military is doing" basically
im american by the way
i agree that there is baseless "americunt" blabber, but its trendy and cool so whatever
guns are fine by me
however, my aunt not being able to get chemotherapy because its far too expensive and shes deemed "as good as dead" anyway is not fine.
the free market should control many things, but keep in mind that their main goal is profit, not helping people. and that is at the heart of the issue.
weve regressed to a time before the Hippocratic oath, and that was THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests