Boring song structures

[gravity]

lots of stuff is made simply to smash dancefloors, which unfortunately means being predictable a lot of the time (dunno why, its almost like producers underestimate the intelligence of clubbers...) also it makes life easier for the dj, which i also think is a bit of a cop out since the tnuc is getting paid to play records anyway, so at least give him something a bit more challenging.

you dont need to make a track unmixable to be more interesting, you can actually do quite a lot with the standard 4/4 8 bar chunks type of structure. i normally respect people who do so a lot more than run of the mill dance-fodder tbh.

[emef]

it's because so many people making tunes are kids fucking around with vsts and not musicians.

no disrespect, but maybe someone should make a "music theory" plugin for them.

OMG I JUST LEARNED HOW TO ARRANGE COUNTERPOINT MELODIES AND EMPLOY PLAGAL CADENCES!

its these 'kids' though that bring a lot of the fresh shit to music

given the choice i'd rather check some silly tune a 'kid' made than some music theory spouting duffer

[mico viejo]

it's because so many people making tunes are kids fucking around with vsts and not musicians.

no disrespect, but maybe someone should make a "music theory" plugin for them.

OMG I JUST LEARNED HOW TO ARRANGE COUNTERPOINT MELODIES AND EMPLOY PLAGAL CADENCES!

its these 'kids' though that bring a lot of the fresh shit to music

given the choice i'd rather check some silly tune a 'kid' made than some music theory spouting duffer

actually 100 percent on point. fuck it, fools can make as many predictable arrangements as they want as long as a few kids keep pushin things 4ward...

[therapist]

I'm not saying there isn't decent, creative stuff out there and I don't need to go looking for it, I'm asking don't the producers themselves get so bored of basically trying to recreate other people's tunes.

I've said that already, but I'm not sure everyone here can read properly.

[hurlingdervish]

it's because so many people making tunes are kids fucking around with vsts and not musicians.

no disrespect, but maybe someone should make a "music theory" plugin for them.

OMG I JUST LEARNED HOW TO ARRANGE COUNTERPOINT MELODIES AND EMPLOY PLAGAL CADENCES!

its these 'kids' though that bring a lot of the fresh shit to music

given the choice i'd rather check some silly tune a 'kid' made than some music theory spouting duffer

yea man i would rather listen to noise than music


oh wait no i wouldnt.


you're a musician. learn music theory, even if its just to forget about it after.

[decree]

wow this got really blown out of proporation ahhahaha


funny

[my_fickle_eye]

dont people make mixdowns for radio and mixdowns for a dj? If a tune is 4/4 should be easy for a dj

[youthful_implants]

lots of stuff is made simply to smash dancefloors, which unfortunately means being predictable a lot of the time (dunno why, its almost like producers underestimate the intelligence of clubbers...) also it makes life easier for the dj, which i also think is a bit of a cop out since the tnuc is getting paid to play records anyway, so at least give him something a bit more challenging.

you dont need to make a track unmixable to be more interesting, you can actually do quite a lot with the standard 4/4 8 bar chunks type of structure. i normally respect people who do so a lot more than run of the mill dance-fodder tbh.

agree.

[slothrop]

Simon Reynolds quotes Goldie - "what's interesting is trying to be musical and mixable" - ie a lot of great music comes out of the creative tension between the desire to fuck with peoples heads and the imperative to make them dance so your tunes get played out and you get the chance to fuck with their heads. It kind of pulls it into a balance where really cool things can happen.

[jolly wailer]

^^ yes this!


I dont get people who come on this board talking about doing odd time tracks and tempo shifts all over the place


no one is going to feel that, you're purposely messing with the balance of the tune


you can still be fresh without completely throwing the map out and reinventing the wheel

[hurlingdervish]

sometimes a one bar break added on to the powers of 2 structure can work really well

its like a "false drop"

[sifres]

lots of stuff is made simply to smash dancefloors, which unfortunately means being predictable a lot of the time (dunno why, its almost like producers underestimate the intelligence of clubbers...) also it makes life easier for the dj, which i also think is a bit of a cop out since the tnuc is getting paid to play records anyway, so at least give him something a bit more challenging.

Wow... I dunno where you come from, but in my universe you play for fun mostly and maybe, maybe, you land a gig every 3 months that pays out like 10% of what you put into actually buying gear and records...

I'm defo moving to where you live

Oh and... If you play an overly complicated record. People run for the bar. Which is also the reason you shouldn't over estimate the intelligence of the crowd. 70% are fucked beyond reason on a poison of choice, the obvious being alcohol, which makes for pretty stupid people

Ever hear a random drunken punter go:
"Wow did he just go from a 7/8 Fminor to a 3/4 Gmajor? That's so cool!"?


Be creative people. Just don't over do it

[abZ]

lots of stuff is made simply to smash dancefloors, which unfortunately means being predictable a lot of the time (dunno why, its almost like producers underestimate the intelligence of clubbers...) also it makes life easier for the dj, which i also think is a bit of a cop out since the tnuc is getting paid to play records anyway, so at least give him something a bit more challenging.

Wow... I dunno where you come from, but in my universe you play for fun mostly and maybe, maybe, you land a gig every 3 months that pays out like 10% of what you put into actually buying gear and records...

I'm defo moving to where you live

Oh and... If you play an overly complicated record. People run for the bar. Which is also the reason you shouldn't over estimate the intelligence of the crowd. 70% are fucked beyond reason on a poison of choice, the obvious being alcohol, which makes for pretty stupid people

Ever hear a random drunken punter go:
"Wow did he just go from a 7/8 Fminor to a 3/4 Gmajor? That's so cool!"?


Be creative people. Just don't over do it

It has nothing to do with intelligence. It has to do with the fact that people just want to go out and drink some beer or do some drugs and have a good time dancing / listening to some good / fun music. Yeah there is a small percentage of the population that just wants to go out and scratch their bears in the corner and bitch about the tunes but fuck them anyway. That said there is nothing wrong with some really out there artsy, original shit but the club / rave really isn't the place for it imo.

If you don't care about having dj's play your shit, that is fine but don't go around crying that no one wants to sign you because 90% of people that buy dubstep tunes are dj's looking for some fire for their next gig or mix.

[q23]

[quote="Therapist"] How do you beat formulaeic, dj-friendly music without going mental, and being too unfriendly on the dj? [quote]

By making formulaic music that is not DJ friendly. Its the commonalities in the sounds and styles that allow you to use a word like Dubstep to describe a genre of music, and people already have at least an idea of what you are talking about.

Repitition in electronic music? What has the world come to?

[therapist]

How do you beat formulaeic, dj-friendly music without going mental, and being too unfriendly on the dj?

By making formulaic music that is not DJ friendly. Its the commonalities in the sounds and styles that allow you to use a word like Dubstep to describe a genre of music, and people already have at least an idea of what you are talking about.

Repitition in electronic music? What has the world come to?

I'm really not following you. Surely DJ friendly but not boring as f**k predictable is much better than the other way round?

[Dropkick_Kid]

I prefer 32bar intro's as they allow for a better build up altogether, not saying I'd stick to 32 bars though because I like to mix and match a lot.

[gravity]

lots of stuff is made simply to smash dancefloors, which unfortunately means being predictable a lot of the time (dunno why, its almost like producers underestimate the intelligence of clubbers...) also it makes life easier for the dj, which i also think is a bit of a cop out since the tnuc is getting paid to play records anyway, so at least give him something a bit more challenging.

Wow... I dunno where you come from, but in my universe you play for fun mostly and maybe, maybe, you land a gig every 3 months that pays out like 10% of what you put into actually buying gear and records...

I'm defo moving to where you live

Oh and... If you play an overly complicated record. People run for the bar. Which is also the reason you shouldn't over estimate the intelligence of the crowd. 70% are fucked beyond reason on a poison of choice, the obvious being alcohol, which makes for pretty stupid people

Ever hear a random drunken punter go:
"Wow did he just go from a 7/8 Fminor to a 3/4 Gmajor? That's so cool!"?


Be creative people. Just don't over do it

alrite the dj's being paid was probably a big generalization, but ive seen shit go off thats beyond your 'standard' tune structure. in watford of all places where most people are pissed louts who know fuck all about music. the second part of my post was quite important to what i was saying - you can do a lot whilst still fitting into a mixable structure. im not suggesting everyone go out and copy venetian snares structures or whatever, but standardized intro>wobwobwobwobbly bass drop>breakdown>same drop again>outtro is bollocks tbh and people do respond to other stuff.