cogidubnus wrote:In my experience, the vast majority of punters and promoters don't give a fuck what kind of media you use as long as what comes out of the speakers does the business.
Exactly plus the vast majority of people who moan like the OP, if given the opportunity to partake in a blind test probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between different media.
I know vinyl scientifically (actually watched an experiement about it before) contains more sub-bass than other formats but what percentage of club goers would actually be able to confidently detect this crucial advantage that wax holds over digital?
deepsteppa wrote:
I know vinyl scientifically (actually watched an experiement about it before) contains more sub-bass than other formats but what percentage of club goers would actually be able to confidently detect this crucial advantage that wax holds over digital?
I didn't know this before. I thought the only difference was "warmth". In any event, the quality of the mix/master would have much more effect on the amount of sub than vinyl/digi, no?
AND its often a case of vinyl being mastered differently that gives it a different character
given that they dont make the tunes on a record it;s logical to assume they were mastered for vinyl from a cd lol which renders the entire argument redundant
there are exceptions of course but i seriously doubt anyone uses machines now instead of making it all on a computer....machines to dat would make the vinyl sound better but a cd being mastered means the format is irrelevant
deepsteppa wrote:
I know vinyl scientifically (actually watched an experiement about it before) contains more sub-bass than other formats but what percentage of club goers would actually be able to confidently detect this crucial advantage that wax holds over digital?
I didn't know this before. I thought the only difference was "warmth". In any event, the quality of the mix/master would have much more effect on the amount of sub than vinyl/digi, no?
"Warmth" is the generally perceived difference.
Yet a high quality mixed and mastered vinyl will still contain more sub-bass than an equally mixed and mastered digital format edition. I tried to look for the youtube video experiment I saw a while back demonstrating this with a freqecncy analyzer. Apparently vinyl holds a few more frequencys at the high end too, but these would not be that noticable.
Dubstep, no doubt depending on Sub-Bass much more than other genres (maybe Jungle and DnB to an extent too) therefore relys on the more dependable frequency reproduction that vinyl holds over digital. Personally, I DJ on cds, purely for financial reasons, but if I was playing and getting paid every week I would have to be playing wax.
bagelator wrote:plus I find watching people playing 'digitally live' very dull. there's a lot less margin for error when playing vinyl and I (personally) believe it requires a different set of skils from re-editing and relooping stuff through ableton or whatever, and i enjoy watching people playing dubs more as a result. that's not to say there isn;t skill in doing the latter, because quite clearly there is a LOT of skill involved in digitally re-editing stuff live.
(cue haters etc.)
I just don;t personally see the spectacle of going out to watch someone use ableton.
You do kind of seem to have missed the point of clubs...
why do you people think it honestly makes ANY kind of difference to the music whether the DJ uses vinyl or digital? do i actually have to remind you that music is about MUSIC, not what some guy does with his faders and knobs? perhaps going to the club to some of you is about how good the DJ is at beatmatching with vinyl, but look around... do the people on the dance floor give a damn? no, they're trying to have a good time. you should be getting into that spirit instead of flipping a bitch about what the DJ uses to make the woofers move.. cuz honestly that's just negative energy period, and that's exactly what we don't need in this world, and especially this movement we have going...
narcissus wrote:to some of you is about how good the DJ is at beatmatching with vinyl, but look around... do the people on the dance floor give a damn? no, they're trying to have a good time. you should be getting into that spirit instead of flipping a bitch about what the DJ uses to make the woofers move.. cuz honestly that's just negative energy period, and that's exactly what we don't need in this world, and especially this movement we have going...
fuck that dude. i have such a better time when i hear djs creatively mixing, double dropping, rinsing tunes, and keeping the dancefloor rolling rather than an abrupt switch or a horrid trainwreck. Beatmatching is DJing 101, PERIOD. My problem is looking around on the dancefloor and being disgusted with the fact that people dont give a shit how the performer is "performing", who all paid good money to get into a club, only to hear music being played as if the guy just bought his first setup and thought he was a fucking dj! You have a point when you say people don't give a damn, no most dont, but fuck them. Does that mean that because they have low expectations and standards that every human can now go buy abelton or two tables and become a performer and run a night?
narcissus wrote:to some of you is about how good the DJ is at beatmatching with vinyl, but look around... do the people on the dance floor give a damn? no, they're trying to have a good time. you should be getting into that spirit instead of flipping a bitch about what the DJ uses to make the woofers move.. cuz honestly that's just negative energy period, and that's exactly what we don't need in this world, and especially this movement we have going...
fuck that dude. i have such a better time when i hear djs creatively mixing, double dropping, rinsing tunes, and keeping the dancefloor rolling rather than an abrupt switch or a horrid trainwreck. Beatmatching is DJing 101, PERIOD. My problem is looking around on the dancefloor and being disgusted with the fact that people dont give a shit how the performer is "performing", who all paid good money to get into a club, only to hear music being played as if the guy just bought his first setup and thought he was a fucking dj! You have a point when you say people don't give a damn, no most dont, but fuck them. Does that mean that because they have low expectations and standards that every human can now go buy abelton or two tables and become a performer and run a night?
it's just a format ffs
you can be amazing on vinyl and laptop or terrible on vinyl and laptop.....don't be so fucking elitist as well....i put on a few nights with my hard earned not far off minimum wage cash that i'd saved up for 3 months each time and me playing at the time saved me a bit of money and i wanted to play some tunes through a rig..i mean why not it's my fucking night???
I wasn't spectacular at the time but i put myself on first...
bagelator wrote:plus I find watching people playing 'digitally live' very dull. there's a lot less margin for error when playing vinyl and I (personally) believe it requires a different set of skils from re-editing and relooping stuff through ableton or whatever, and i enjoy watching people playing dubs more as a result. that's not to say there isn;t skill in doing the latter, because quite clearly there is a LOT of skill involved in digitally re-editing stuff live.
(cue haters etc.)
I just don;t personally see the spectacle of going out to watch someone use ableton.
You do kind of seem to have missed the point of clubs...
say what? you ever seen terry francis and craig richards at wiggle? or the tyrant nights at fabric? or carl cox live? or laurent garnier ? does he get his cock out and fiddle around with it on ableton? or dj hype? or zinc? i don;t know where you;re going with this tbh
yes cuzzy , you know about me missing the point about clubs over the last ten years...
bagelator wrote:plus I find watching people playing 'digitally live' very dull. there's a lot less margin for error when playing vinyl and I (personally) believe it requires a different set of skils from re-editing and relooping stuff through ableton or whatever, and i enjoy watching people playing dubs more as a result. that's not to say there isn;t skill in doing the latter, because quite clearly there is a LOT of skill involved in digitally re-editing stuff live.
(cue haters etc.)
I just don;t personally see the spectacle of going out to watch someone use ableton.
You do kind of seem to have missed the point of clubs...
say what? you ever seen terry francis and craig richards at wiggle? or the tyrant nights at fabric? or carl cox live? or laurent garnier ? does he get his cock out and fiddle around with it on ableton? or dj hype? or zinc? i don;t know where you;re going with this tbh
yes cuzzy , you know about me missing the point about clubs over the last ten years...
Carl Cox plays CDs.
Also, the point of a club is to hear music, not to wank over what medium the performer is using.
narcissus wrote:to some of you is about how good the DJ is at beatmatching with vinyl, but look around... do the people on the dance floor give a damn? no, they're trying to have a good time. you should be getting into that spirit instead of flipping a bitch about what the DJ uses to make the woofers move.. cuz honestly that's just negative energy period, and that's exactly what we don't need in this world, and especially this movement we have going...
fuck that dude. i have such a better time when i hear djs creatively mixing, double dropping, rinsing tunes, and keeping the dancefloor rolling rather than an abrupt switch or a horrid trainwreck. Beatmatching is DJing 101, PERIOD. My problem is looking around on the dancefloor and being disgusted with the fact that people dont give a shit how the performer is "performing", who all paid good money to get into a club, only to hear music being played as if the guy just bought his first setup and thought he was a fucking dj! You have a point when you say people don't give a damn, no most dont, but fuck them. Does that mean that because they have low expectations and standards that every human can now go buy abelton or two tables and become a performer and run a night?
it's just a format ffs
you can be amazing on vinyl and laptop or terrible on vinyl and laptop.....don't be so fucking elitist as well....i put on a few nights with my hard earned not far off minimum wage cash that i'd saved up for 3 months each time and me playing at the time saved me a bit of money and i wanted to play some tunes through a rig..i mean why not it's my fucking night???
I wasn't spectacular at the time but i put myself on first...
all that really matters is the tunes working
yeah you can be amazing or terrible on vinyl and a laptop. I was once terrible on vinyl and a laptop. Great. Im just saying to go and perform out in a club, you should have some skill as a DJ, IE as narcissus said, is being good at beatmatching on vinyl that important.. do people really give a damn... beatmatching for me is important. Its not elitism, its just that I go out, and I hear clang after clang or literally watching the DJ text message on their cell phone, then press a button for the next track to play. They are not all talentless, we have some excellent performers here in Phoenix. But there is a specific type of performer we are talking about here. Maybe you are lucky because you are in Croydon, and you have more consistency with good DJs when going out, but where I live there is shit that makes you feel like you wasted your money, and it drags the night's experience.
bagelator wrote:plus I find watching people playing 'digitally live' very dull. there's a lot less margin for error when playing vinyl and I (personally) believe it requires a different set of skils from re-editing and relooping stuff through ableton or whatever, and i enjoy watching people playing dubs more as a result. that's not to say there isn;t skill in doing the latter, because quite clearly there is a LOT of skill involved in digitally re-editing stuff live.
(cue haters etc.)
I just don;t personally see the spectacle of going out to watch someone use ableton.
You do kind of seem to have missed the point of clubs...
say what? you ever seen terry francis and craig richards at wiggle? or the tyrant nights at fabric? or carl cox live? or laurent garnier ? does he get his cock out and fiddle around with it on ableton? or dj hype? or zinc? i don;t know where you;re going with this tbh
yes cuzzy , you know about me missing the point about clubs over the last ten years...
Carl Cox plays CDs.
Also, the point of a club is to hear music, not to wank over what medium the performer is using.
indeed he does, but the last time i seen carl cox he was playing vinyl with skill.. and he's plays cds with skill. i don't spend my time wanking over a format. i'm interested in good sound. i personally prefer watching people play vinyl, but tbh if they're good then cool.. what the original post was about was dickheads knocking out bumblesquat mixes through computer programmes and not really displaying any SKILL.
i'm about skill. sorry.
Last edited by bagelator on Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
narcissus wrote:to some of you is about how good the DJ is at beatmatching with vinyl, but look around... do the people on the dance floor give a damn? no, they're trying to have a good time. you should be getting into that spirit instead of flipping a bitch about what the DJ uses to make the woofers move.. cuz honestly that's just negative energy period, and that's exactly what we don't need in this world, and especially this movement we have going...
fuck that dude. i have such a better time when i hear djs creatively mixing, double dropping, rinsing tunes, and keeping the dancefloor rolling rather than an abrupt switch or a horrid trainwreck. Beatmatching is DJing 101, PERIOD. My problem is looking around on the dancefloor and being disgusted with the fact that people dont give a shit how the performer is "performing", who all paid good money to get into a club, only to hear music being played as if the guy just bought his first setup and thought he was a fucking dj! You have a point when you say people don't give a damn, no most dont, but fuck them. Does that mean that because they have low expectations and standards that every human can now go buy abelton or two tables and become a performer and run a night?
it's just a format ffs
you can be amazing on vinyl and laptop or terrible on vinyl and laptop.....don't be so fucking elitist as well....i put on a few nights with my hard earned not far off minimum wage cash that i'd saved up for 3 months each time and me playing at the time saved me a bit of money and i wanted to play some tunes through a rig..i mean why not it's my fucking night???
I wasn't spectacular at the time but i put myself on first...
all that really matters is the tunes working
yeah you can be amazing or terrible on vinyl and a laptop. I was once terrible on vinyl and a laptop. Great. Im just saying to go and perform out in a club, you should have some skill as a DJ, IE as narcissus said, is being good at beatmatching on vinyl that important.. do people really give a damn... beatmatching for me is important. Its not elitism, its just that I go out, and I hear clang after clang or literally watching the DJ text message on their cell phone, then press a button for the next track to play. They are not all talentless, we have some excellent performers here in Phoenix. But there is a specific type of performer we are talking about here. Maybe you are lucky because you are in Croydon, and you have more consistency with good DJs when going out, but where I live there is shit that makes you feel like you wasted your money, and it drags the night's experience.
This is purely my opinion..
Tbh i have been on ableton and textng in the past as i was running the night and the next dude hadn't turned up!
texting doesn't take longer than 30 seconds. Vinyl DJs on internet radio often take the time to check up on their respective chatroom... what's the difference?
Pistonsbeneath wrote:Tbh i have been on ableton and textng in the past as i was running the night and the next dude hadn't turned up!
you get my point
maybe don't assume so much man
think of it like this...maybe they're playing to save some money but don't have the confidence to do it live so built a set at home and pressed play?
is that really a crime worth lynching someone for????
its like you are playing "what ifs"
nah Im not assuming anything. Living in a city with a small electronic scene Id say out here I know most of the promoters. By the very least, the ones who's nights I go to and support. These are not whom Im talking about, who in your case, would be texting someone else trying to fill a slot for the night to run smooth. Again this is my opinion. We are on a discussion board, hence discussing. Shit is insulting to me to see this type of stuff happening, when back before serato and ableton and all this digital shit you had to be good to play in a club, at least be able to BEATMATCH! Even here in Phoenix where most are clueless!
collige wrote:texting doesn't take longer than 30 seconds. Vinyl DJs on internet radio often take the time to check up on their respective chatroom... what's the difference?
playing on a radio show and playing out live is a little different dont you think? Alot of the time artists can just drop a track from the top.. in a club I think you are facing a little more pressure and expectations...
I hope you guys are not picturing me one of those elitist twats sitting in the back judging everything I hear saying that was "aight." Or "what a shitty mix." I understand both sides of the argument. This is the side Im just arguing right now?
i totally get where you're coming from but i'd much rather see someone play gravious, boxcutter, mala, elemental, early emalkay, kryptic minds, burial, rsd, peverelist, joy orbison etc on a laptop than someone playing aggy-bro-wobble shit all night on decks mixing on the drops....
I didn't know this before. I thought the only difference was "warmth". In any event, the quality of the mix/master would have much more effect on the amount of sub than vinyl/digi, no?
