So you don't like grime?

[omegamystik]

this might be a good place to ask about this old track with a grime mc over it.... it sampled snoop doggs sexual seduction but there was an mc over it talking about a girl. from last year, possibly late 2008, production was possibly mark1 or in that vein... very smooth. any ideas?

[CrabDribble]

I don't like grime MCs and I never will, infact I'd go as far as to say I despise them. I don't give a fuck how you feel about that, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I hated MC-based grime before I even knew what dubstep was. I don't even like ALL dubstep.
Anyway, Rude Kid - Electric is amazing and Terror Danjah - Bipolar is nice as well. I visited the Butterz Blog and listened to the first hour of the ustream mix and that had some quality tunes. If you're gonna be pushing more instrumentals and the producer side of grime then I'll continue to check the blog and possibly tune in to the radio show if I can remember the schedule(listening to one of your podcasts right now). If it's all about MCs still then I'm out, You don't have to like it but that's the way it is for me. I don't judge people for liking grime and I don't expect to be judge for not liking it.(w/ MCs that is)

[dreamizm]

who's the one continually bringing up location in this conversation. you!

I only brought it up b'cos it's clearly relevant to ur comments- which are patently being made from an Amercian standpoint and within an American context. Im not sending. It's just relevant. I agree that usuallylocation is irrelevant in music debates but we are talking abt a specific period in time and the cultural/geographical context is relevant to grime in 04/05

so, keep trying to say that grime didn't develop in north america, when the fact was that there were parties in at least 5 cities here, actively pushing grime in 2004/2005. (grime city/mundo/starkey/dev79/keith e/shadetek).

No disrespect to u or any of these guys but i never heard of any of them in 04 or 05 and i doubt many ppl outside the US had either

the potential was there for things to get bigger here

of course. i totally agree.

wot do you call it, eskimo, pies could have all gone big here. but wiley got no marketing /radio promotion from the label.

back to my orginal point, there were WAY better and WAY more grime tunes around 04/05 that cld have gone big in the US and better repped the scene, wiley is a moot point b'cos (a) the album flopped in the UK (and US) and (b) he wasnt marketed properly like u say

and btw i dont see this as playground shit, its called debate, i havent got personal at any stage just tried to reason my argument. Peace

[blazey]

Where is DJ Flippy Smalls? Member dude had bootlegs for days.

[blackdown]

this might be a good place to ask about this old track with a grime mc over it.... it sampled snoop doggs sexual seduction but there was an mc over it talking about a girl. from last year, possibly late 2008, production was possibly mark1 or in that vein... very smooth. any ideas?

That sounds like a Beezy vocal, production by DJ Distinction, possibly called "Let Go" I think.

[deamonds]

re: tredding on thin ice, definitely NOT wiley's best work, by far the weakest. He should have just released an album of Ground Zero vocals.

re: Boy in the corner. There is obviously more than 1 track worth listening to on that. Come on. Silly Silly.

If you had listened to radio in them days, you will know why it's so good.

[blackdown]

I think Tredding on Thin Ice is better than a lot of people think. Yeah it sorely missed Eskimo and Ground Zero vocals, but it's still better than 90% of most grime "mixtapes" since. Second Phaze has some sick parts too. They're definitely much stronger than some of Wiley's later albums.

[dreamizm]

I think Tredding on Thin Ice is better than a lot of people think. Yeah it sorely missed Eskimo and Ground Zero vocals, but it's still better than 90% of most grime "mixtapes" since. Second Phaze has some sick parts too. They're definitely much stronger than some of Wiley's later albums.

Yeah but the original (implied) comparison was between Treading on Thin Ice and anything else going on in grime in 04. Saying its representative of Wiley's best work (up to then/at that time) is one thing, saying it's representative of the best grime had to offer at that time (ie. to the US) is another.

[Xavy]

Thanks to Blackdown for starting this.

This thread has been an eye opener. I feel silly for not having paid grime enough attention in the past, and it's not a mistake I'm going to continue to make.

Brilliant mix.

[1017_duck]

out to blackdown and xavy!

[jolly wailer]

sendspace has the most advanced pars on the internet



re-up?

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jj2c2dzwjzo

Or Stream via http://i.mixcloud.com/CDMx

Thanks for checking it out!

o cheers bruv!


BIG IT


grime continues to provide the most skittery and least stagnant riddmic variations for the fwd minded

[unlikely]

The golden age of grime instrumentals was such a creative time for music in the UK

bongo eyes is still the most hype track ever made in any genre

[fairieswearboots]

beg to differ - its Jon E Cash "war'
THAT is Hype

I just dont think Grime will ever get that big (and in a certain way I dont want it to)

It's too raw/road/too much beef/beats are too nasty/too immediate/too hype (all the things that make it GOOD)

The grime artists who have done well have progressed to more commercial/rewarding things-

MC's (Dizzee obv, + Tinchy, Giggs (who is more Road rap and getting more love that way - Streets/R&B tracks)
DJ's (quite a few grime DJ's turned funky and now seem to get way more gigs, radio, releases etc)

It's almost like a stepping stone (and that's no bad thing)

[mos dan]

I think Tredding on Thin Ice is better than a lot of people think. Yeah it sorely missed Eskimo and Ground Zero vocals, but it's still better than 90% of most grime "mixtapes" since. Second Phaze has some sick parts too. They're definitely much stronger than some of Wiley's later albums.

yeah i've re-evaluated treddin' quite a bit in recent years too.. while it was flawed, it showed a possible way to make a mainstream grime album (don't neuter the production if you can help it, but do add hooks and girly vox) that's not really been revisited much since. i'd like to see more mcs try and compliment their raw energy this way, rather than merely abandoning it altogether.

i think the point is that like the clash or something, whichever wiley album is your favourite/least favourite, none of them (yet, anyway) have come close to capturing the scale and breadth of his talent. that's why i said in that fact piece (big up for linking) his best album is the (free!) 'grimetapes.com presents wiley vol 1'. because at least it captures him at his rawest, on a wide variety of different beats, with a wide variety of different flows. http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php ... Itemid=105

btw out to the people who abandoned grime years ago making bizarre and irrelevant generalisations about journalists, lol

[unlikely]

big article as always Dan!

I think my persy faves would have to be Salt Beef (changed my life when i heard this) and I Will Not Lose (post-garage pre-grime era gold)

[prisoner]

maybe i missed it, but i dont think anyones stated that grime might not have as been in america for the simple fact that it's very hard to understand what mc's are saying especially with the additional slang that isn't much understood outside london or by heads.

i played my girlfriend (who's big on dubstep & hip hop) 'next hype' (which was arguably the biggest grime tune in 09) and she had no clue what he was going on about. although when she watched the video it made more sense, but she has no clue what "par" means or any of the other slang that's commonly used.

im not saying it has to appeal to americans in any way (id prefer it didn't), but if someone cant really get behind the message of the tune they aren't going to get behind it (regardless of how well it is or isn't marketed.)

[rupert]

I think grime is going through a bit of a teenage thing at the moment, it's having to change and you could argue it was never really a genre in the traditional sense any way, more an attempt to describe the music being made by a certain group of people at a certain time, mainly in, but not exclusively, London. The whole radio thing was massive, listening to Matty D/Waifer Slew Dem shows or the NASTY shows on Deja (the NASTY line-up was mental: DEE, Mac 10, Jammer, Kano, Ghetto etc) or Logan when he was on Rinse, that's what grime will mean to a certain generation of people.

It's left a big legacy though and I only got into dubstep through grime, for a while I just dismissed dubstep as grime without the vocals (even though I see how ridiculous that is now). Look at the MC's that have emerged from the scene and you've got one bonafide black British pop star out of it and more on the way up. Personally I think that's a brilliant thing. Production wise people like Starkey, Zomby and Untold wouldn't be doing the same thing without those old grime instros.

I thought Treddin' was decent but if you were around at the time you know people were expecting more from it, but looking back it's a solid release, I thought Playtime was underrated as well, true there was lots of stuff that had already done the rounds but I don't think it was really aimed at grime fans, it was more trying to get that slightly leftfield broadsheet audience that Big Dada get most of their sales from.

I'd like to sign out by saying that This Is The Beginning is my favourite grime release ever and it's free, actually maybe that's the problem, the best things in grime are free, radio sets, those grimetapes best ofs, the RWD AAA compilation, Prancehalls Anger Is A Gift mix, the stuff that Elijah and Skilliam do. That stuff is better than most of the things I've paid for over the years.

[Max4Beats]

Grime has introduced many producers/Listeners to Dubstep!
Me for one.
Grime and Dubstep are like cousins? Maybe even brother and sister?
If you make good grime beats you can make dubstep, and Vice Versa

[Geeza]

beg to differ - its Jon E Cash "war'
THAT is Hype

That was the first ever vinyal i ever bought.

Grime is doing alot now and always has been , if it werent for grime i wouldnt really know or care about dubstep (i first heard midnight request line on a sidewinder set i think wiley and skepta vs slk) .so that was when i was 1st introduced to dubstep

I beg people actually listen to alot of grime before slating it, you cant judge grime today on old productions and mc's even though certain old beats and bars still stand up today.

take a listen to D Double from 02-03 and tell me his bars dont still merk today

Also what Blazey said where the frig is flippy smalls he was a sick dj, the bootlegs were a lott and it was jokes on Crazy Times when he was getting terrorised in ayia napa hahaha

[butterz]

Im on Rinse FM tonight 1-3am so if your up check it out. I will upload it on mixcloud when I get in if you cant stay up