HELP - Web host terms / Mixtape legality

[__________]

I'd really appreciate some help from masters of the web or masters of copyright issues on this one.

All the websites I run are music-oriented. Lots of .mp3 downloads/streams and private folders for downloading productions from different crews (NOT warez/torrent or copyright infringing downloads. Private folders only accesible by the people I run the sites for, to share their own music amongst themselves.)

I emailed my host (JustHost) about getting an increase on my php max_upload because its @ 10mb right now which is shit...I need my clients to be able to upload .wav files of their tunes from the browser, easily in excess of 60mb, without using FTP.

Anyway they replied, not with encouragement or a solution, but with warnings.

"Hi Will,
We dont allow to upload/host files like music of podcasts on our shared servers .
You can check our TOS :
http://www.justhost.com/terms-and-conditions"

I checked the TOS again (which I THOROUGHLY checked before signing up and determined I'd be fine to run sites like I currently am) and I came back to this line:
"Use of our services to infringe upon any copyright or trademark is prohibited. This includes but is not limited to unauthorized copying of music, books, photographs, or any other copyrighted work."

Am I infringing on any copyrights by hosting my mixes and other hand-picked ones? I always presumed its legal, or a gray area which labels aren't fussed about. I'm not offering ANY single .mp3 files signed to any label for download. I am not stupid. All the hosted audio is mixes, 90% dubstep, 10% reggae/dub/dnb. Nothing in the mixes is on any major labels. I can't see DMZ, Hyperdub or Stones Throw getting teasy about me putting their tunes in a mix...

I noticed this line in the TOS too, which doesn't look so encouraging:
"Offering video and/or audio streaming or downloads, MP3 Files, Games and shareware is also not permitted on any Just Host server."

Call me naive, but isn't that a totally fucked rule? Not allowed to stream ANY audio or host .mp3s? I swear down I didn't see that term when I signed up!

Am I fucked? Had I best download a backup and find a new host? Shall I just .zip all my mixes and say they're archives, not music files?
I spent £70 on this hosting plan, I don't wanna lose it or my sites, cos I'll be in big trouble
Have I inadvertantly become a pirate? Does anyone know of a good-value host which'll cut me some slack with the mixtapes?

What should I do?!?!

[magma]

First off, if none of the artists (or more importantly, the copyright holders) have any problem with you hosting their tunes on mixes etc, then you've got no problem from a legal point of view.

The host probably disallow media files for a couple of reasons... they don't want to open themselves up to copyright problems, but also, they probably realise that you could feasibly use a shitload of bandwidth very quickly if you're allowing streaming/downloading/uploading of stuff - really, once you start getting into that, you're not a 'hobbyist' anymore, you need a proper webhosting solution.

Having said that - if they're happy to up your limit and they haven't got stroppy about this sort of thing in the past, you'll probably be ok riding your luck and staying quiet about what you use the space for. They won't delete your shit without asking unless it definitely infringes copyright - but ALWAYS keep backups of stuff you have online.

Tbh though, I'd get a new host that's a bit more suited to your requirements...

[DRTY]

You could always buy your own server and hire a slot in a server farm..... but that would cost.

Although if you're doing nothing illegal (which seems to be the case) tell them!

[__________]

First off, if none of the artists (or more importantly, the copyright holders) have any problem with you hosting their tunes on mixes etc, then you've got no problem from a legal point of view.

The host probably disallow media files for a couple of reasons... they don't want to open themselves up to copyright problems, but also, they probably realise that you could feasibly use a shitload of bandwidth very quickly if you're allowing streaming/downloading/uploading of stuff - really, once you start getting into that, you're not a 'hobbyist' anymore, you need a proper webhosting solution.

Having said that - if they're happy to up your limit and they haven't got stroppy about this sort of thing in the past, you'll probably be ok riding your luck and staying quiet about what you use the space for. They won't delete your shit without asking unless it definitely infringes copyright - but ALWAYS keep backups of stuff you have online.

Tbh though, I'd get a new host that's a bit more suited to your requirements...

Nice one, that's chilled me out a bit. I can see where they're coming from, trying to cover their own asses, but so many places host podcasts/mixtapes that I don't see how it can be properly illegal. I only use about 40GB bandwidth per month, which is fuck all in the grand scheme of things. I hate to think how much bandwidth dedicated mixtape sites like GetDarker and BareFiles rinse every month!

You could always buy your own server and hire a slot in a server farm..... but that would cost.

Although if you're doing nothing illegal (which seems to be the case) tell them!

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'd have no use for a dedicated server - I don't use a lot of bandwidth and it'd be impractical (not to mention another headfuck setting it up)

Looks like it might just be an email back telling them I'm not doing anything illegal and if they've got a problem, refund time and switch to another host. Fuck knows though...they've kind of thrown me off track, now I'm paranoid

[magma]

Looks like it might just be an email back telling them I'm not doing anything illegal and if they've got a problem, refund time and switch to another host. Fuck knows though...they've kind of thrown me off track, now I'm paranoid

I wouldn't bother giving them an ultimatum like that... chances are whoever's answering your e-mail doesn't have the authority to make an exception to the rules for you; the most likely reason they said anything at all is that prompted them by saying what you hosted (it's probably standard procedure that if someone mentions they host audio/video to tell them it's not allowed) - if they up your limit then just keep on and keep schtum, the only reason to leave would be if they don't give you what you need.

Most techies are dodgy as fuck, they'll only want to make sure their asses are covered.

[__________]

So you reckon just keep quiet and don't bother replying to the email, and continue to host my mixes?
I'll be royally pissed off if they take my sites down...would they warn me first before deleting my sites, or just fuck me off without a refund?

from the research I've done today, it seems nobody really knows 100% if mixes are legal or not. some people think they come under fair use, and others say its totally not legal. I have no idea what to do.

Does anybody know of any web hosts who don't give a fuck about hosting mixes, or do they all put these rules in their TOS to cover their asses?

[rbnc]

How much are you paying them per month?

[wormcode]

I'd contact a few more companies through their "live chat" features and ask them, be sure to save the chat log. Usually they have employee ID's so you can verify later in case they say otherwise about the mp3's at a later time. Of course, companies can change their TOS anytime they wish...

A lot of hosting companies don't allow streaming media as it can use quite a bit of resources, especially on shared hosting as they like to keep all the users at a balanced level resource wise. More and more allow it though since it's such a big part of the net these days.

About the legality, it's probably some type of grey area, but most likely legal as fair use/promotional tool, especially if you paid for them. The tunes are made for DJ's after all. I think really the only issue would be when money is involved, or when it's an "all one label" or "all one artist" mix as that's generally frowned upon unless there is specific permission given or the material is fairly old/out of press.

[__________]

How much are you paying them per month?

think I paid £70 for three years

[wormcode]

Also look into Virtual Private Servers which are between normal webhosting and dedicated servers.

I was looking for a similar type of host recently, checking out this company http://www.inmotionhosting.com, here is a part of the log, maybe some useful info:

>Is it a problem to have a website where one of the services available is audio/video streaming of original media & content?
Jason R.: That shouldn't be a problem at all. You can stream audio/video through a plan with us. Do you
know about how many users or much traffic you would be expecting to the site?

>The disk space is "unlimited", but is there a max amount of space that can be reached before extra
charges are incurred?

Jason R.: No there is not, however you cannot use it for file storage or back ups as that would violate our
terms of service.

>audio/video storage is ok though, as long as it is directly related to the website, is that correct?

Jason R.: Correct.

>And I assume the same is for bandwidth? Is there a max before being asked to upgrade to a virtual or dedicated server?

Jason R.: We do not limit the amount of bandwidth or diskspace due to other limiting factors such as the
amount of RAM or CPU that would affect you before those would. What that means, is the more traffic
you have, or the more concurrent users you have logged on at one time, the more processing power the
site will require to run. If it starts to be fairly intensive, then you would have to upgrade to a VPS hosting plan; something with dedicated resources.

[alien pimp]

as far as i know, copyright infringement is a penal law issue, not a civil one, which means you are liable even if no complain against you

also according to the laws in most countries, mixes are an illegal form of derivative art if the tracks are fully copyrighted. about 2-3 years ago many people/sites in germany were hunt down and fined for mixes if i remember well

i wonder how mixcloud deals with it

anyway, if they wanted to enforce the laws, we are liable, and your host wants to avoid that

if anyone knows better the laws, please correct me where i'm wrong, i'm really interested in this too

[USTD]

I got 1.3gbps of bandwidth.

How may I help?

[brent]

i'd say it's kind of like the writing on vinyls that says you aren't allowed to play it for anyone else. nobody cares. :p

[alien pimp]

i'd say it's kind of like the writing on vinyls that says you aren't allowed to play it for anyone else. nobody cares. :p

i never wrote that shit on the wax i put out!