On workflow.. drums

[b166er]

So my prob is getting my drum workflow in line. I'll start with gathering some samples or even synthing some kicks or random percussive sounds. I load up the sounds in Impulse (Ableton), map out a midi beat. Then I'll start to layer, try to get a nice thick sound, depending of course on what I'm trying to go for in the track. But then things get... messy. It's the bouncing down and rebouncing that gets me. I don't know how it happens, but it happens every time, I'll literally get lost in the process, and by the time I get up from the desk, I've created some monster that bears no likeness to what I've started. I'll go to bed thinking, Yeah, I've got something going, and tomorrow, I'll do this and that and this. But when tomorrow comes, I have no idea what the hell I just did. Every sound is out of place and just... wrong. Is this some psycho shit going on? I leave the desk and my mind resets, and has no idea where I was planning to go? Maybe this is just a rant. I hate music.

[legend4ry]

The answer is simple..


You're trying to hard.

start off small, just some drums and bass - get that flowing then write a melody what compliments the drums and bass - you want tension and the right sounds, it'll just "come" to you don't try and find it..

[contakt321]

Agreed.

Also, don't bounce if you don't have to.

Last, write yourself a note. Specify what you want to get done next time you work, what you like, what you want to fix.

[deadly_habit]

see my first couple hours on a tune are generally building all the drums and gelling them together
i feel like thats one of the most important aspects of the track and get anal about it

[JFK]

You're trying to hard.

Agree.

Last, write yourself a note. Specify what you want to get done next time you work, what you like, what you want to fix.

This is a brilliant tip. I have a "studio diary" that I keep on my desk with notes and stuff about what I want to do next time I sit down.

[AFL]

Last, write yourself a note. Specify what you want to get done next time you work, what you like, what you want to fix.

Genius! Why haven't I thought of this. Probably because I'm a stoner and forget to write myself a note. I'm going to leave a note on my screen reminding me to write a note about the tune I'm working on.

haha.

Seriously though, great advice.

[upstateface]

see my first couple hours on a tune are generally building all the drums and gelling them together
i feel like thats one of the most important aspects of the track and get anal about it

This

[3za]

I hate music.

me too

[continuumdnb]

This is a long shot, but are you using headphones?

I, and a couple of other people I've spoken to, have noticed that, when using headphones, after a few hours you tend to hear certain frequencies much quieter, so when you listen back the next day you'll often get something sounding very different.

[nitz]

its easy, like suggested your trying to hard, the key is the make a simple 4x4 beat, kick clap kick clap, then change to clap to 3's so now we got some half step, then put in some 4x4 style hits, 3,7,11 ect. now you a got a flat 4x4 beat, change the hits around.. and then were getting some grove going...

[nowaysj]

said it before, will say it again, I don't like layering drum samples. I think there is a lot more that can go wrong than can go right. I've got a grip of good drum samples, I can usually find what I want. Further I can use envelopes and compression to change the shape of the hit, but that is rarely necessary.

I know fruity has a built in notebook so you can leave yourself notes on the particular track you're working on. You can even sequence the notes. I would hope other daws have this functionality.

Last and so far from least, KISS, keep it simple stupid. If you can't remember a beat after listening to it loop 150 times, no listener is going to remember it after hearing it 1 or 2 times. KISS.

[compact71]

said it before, will say it again, I don't like layering drum samples. I think there is a lot more that can go wrong than can go right. I've got a grip of good drum samples, I can usually find what I want. Further I can use envelopes and compression to change the shape of the hit, but that is rarely necessary.

werd!

[Basic A]

said it before, will say it again, I don't like layering drum samples

I dont like layering drum samples either... I dont know why youd layer 3 samples if thier actually snares...

But pitch shift and envelope a gunshot, layer that shit with a hammer hittin a trashcan and a sample of Dave Chappelles Rick James impersonation slappin charly murphy in the face... put em all through the same compressor... Whala... Unique snare drum, or somethin to serve as one at least.

[b166er]

thanks fellas for the responses. I've found what seems to be the most particular of the problem, and that is the use of headphones, and not leaving notes. What seems to happen often is that I'm working on music at night, and keeping the volume low, so I wind up x-referencing with headphones.

This is a long shot, but are you using headphones?

I, and a couple of other people I've spoken to, have noticed that, when using headphones, after a few hours you tend to hear certain frequencies much quieter, so when you listen back the next day you'll often get something sounding very different.

Though my Sony's are quite decent, they do sound very different to my monitors. Snares sound brighter, which conveys a sense of thinness. Rather than a thick sound, they sound peaky, and have lots of top to em, and then I start to layer something thicker with em. Kicks the same, because headphones don't relay that sense of beef, so I wind up trying to compensate for that too. Then you add that i wind up going to bed in the middle of a session, my mind is still flowing, but my body says, nah, time for sleep. I get back to it, and I barely recognize what I've done! Its not so much trying to hard as trying to compensate. Nonetheless, I'm gonna take it easy with over detailing!

Agreed.

Also, don't bounce if you don't have to.

Last, write yourself a note. Specify what you want to get done next time you work, what you like, what you want to fix.

While I don't bounce unless I feel I have to (kinda like driving the car to the kitchen don't ya think?), WRITING NOTES IS THE MILLION DOLLAR ANSWER! Sometimes things can be so simple you just cant see it, lol. Yes writing notes is such a good move, I cant believe I didn't think of it before. Making music is like balancing your checkbook, imagine doing it without writing info down! Its a flow, a process, and it has too many details to just store in your head, unless you're the Jay-Z of producing, which some of you are, I def am not!
I've fixed the problems in my 2 tracks I've started and got so fucked in I had to start this thread. Hopefully it'll keep more things in check along the way!

[grooki]

said it before, will say it again, I don't like layering drum samples. I think there is a lot more that can go wrong than can go right. I've got a grip of good drum samples, I can usually find what I want. Further I can use envelopes and compression to change the shape of the hit, but that is rarely necessary.

I.

yes I used to layer my drums like crazy, but now I hardlely do it at all. There is a tendency to "add more" when you feel that a sound isn't quite what you want, but often the opposite is true, take away, or try another sample.

Also, I'm often amazed at how different a track will sound when I change the snare particularly. can totally change the groove.

I would never bounce down a beat - this totally takes away my ability to do what the OP wants to do - alter the beat so that it sounds good to you.

When I'm making a beat, I make the drums until I think "this is a good beat, I like this loop but also want to keep growing it/experimenting". Then I copy said loop, and keep mucking about. Repeat.

[deadly_habit]

said it before, will say it again, I don't like layering drum samples. I think there is a lot more that can go wrong than can go right. I've got a grip of good drum samples, I can usually find what I want. Further I can use envelopes and compression to change the shape of the hit, but that is rarely necessary.

I.

yes I used to layer my drums like crazy, but now I hardlely do it at all. There is a tendency to "add more" when you feel that a sound isn't quite what you want, but often the opposite is true, take away, or try another sample.

Also, I'm often amazed at how different a track will sound when I change the snare particularly. can totally change the groove.

I would never bounce down a beat - this totally takes away my ability to do what the OP wants to do - alter the beat so that it sounds good to you.

When I'm making a beat, I make the drums until I think "this is a good beat, I like this loop but also want to keep growing it/experimenting". Then I copy said loop, and keep mucking about. Repeat.

same thing for me the processing and gelling the main buss together is what i'm all about these days
plus over the years i developed my own kits to use, but rarely touch em now

[my_fickle_eye]

said it before, will say it again, I don't like layering drum samples

I dont like layering drum samples either... I dont know why youd layer 3 samples if thier actually snares...

But pitch shift and envelope a gunshot, layer that shit with a hammer hittin a trashcan and a sample of Dave Chappelles Rick James impersonation slappin charly murphy in the face... put em all through the same compressor... Whala... Unique snare drum, or somethin to serve as one at least.

yes i like to do this, got myself a nice lightbulb being smashed and a tamberine with an 808 snare for a tune i am currently working on . random noises that fit together on top of kick drum and snare are where it is at! mmm someone slapping a towlll mmm

[Basic A]

said it before, will say it again, I don't like layering drum samples

I dont like layering drum samples either... I dont know why youd layer 3 samples if thier actually snares...

But pitch shift and envelope a gunshot, layer that shit with a hammer hittin a trashcan and a sample of Dave Chappelles Rick James impersonation slappin charly murphy in the face... put em all through the same compressor... Whala... Unique snare drum, or somethin to serve as one at least.

yes i like to do this, got myself a nice lightbulb being smashed and a tamberine with an 808 snare for a tune i am currently working on . random noises that fit together on top of kick drum and snare are where it is at! mmm someone slapping a towlll mmm

Tellin you dude, take a sledge to some metal waste bins, throw a recorder inside of em before you start with the sledge...

[JFK]

I know fruity has a built in notebook so you can leave yourself notes on the particular track you're working on. You can even sequence the notes. I would hope other daws have this functionality.

Cubase 5 has this. It is so useful you could glue a set of tweezers to it and call it a swiss army knife.

[magma]

Last, write yourself a note. Specify what you want to get done next time you work, what you like, what you want to fix.

This. I've started saving my projects with notes in the file names... my last one was called "8 Bit Melody - DON'T BE MOBY"