(Ilegal) Internet music downloads ....

[yellowhighlighter]

hey let's all turn a blind eye to countries and people that have been exploited by western nations so we can have nice computers, shoes and super big tvs!!

nothing matters until it begins to affect you...

adapt or die.

[abZ]

see... when deadly habit, abz myself and some others started djing we'd pay 10-15 for import tunes.

mp3's are $1.50

get a job and stop stealing

I know this is a dead arguement, but trying to justify being dishonest is wack

I was getting them for 9 dollars

You can't justify being dishonest but with vinyl you were getting something. Like for example, Datsik tunes are always #1, with digital you know that you are one of 1000's of djs that have that tune yay. When it was vinyl with a hot tune you had to have a hook up or be quick in order to be the guy rinsing it out first, everyone else would have to wait a month or 2 for the second pressing or sometimes even a year for a 3rd or 4th pressing. Digital changed all of that. But it's good and bad, I think digital gives producers like me who never seem to have that much hype of their side a chance. I dunno why I am going on about this.... my point is is that you can scream it, spam it, do whatever, it isn't going to change a god damn thing, these debates have been going as long as I have owned a computer. The market is getting more and more saturated and there are less and less people are willing to pay for it. It is a classic example of the effect of supply and demand. I don't really see the market getting less saturated anytime soon and I don't see people suddenly seeing the err of their ways in pirating music, everyone knows what the fuck they are doing. So until someone starts outlining a plan to get people to pay for digital music, I will continue to beleive that we are on the verge of having to give our music out for free or not let anyone hear it at all.

[FSTZ]

pretty sad and tired arguement, but oh well. what can you do.

perhaps all the crappy tunes will be released and torrented and the fire tunes we just trade amongst ourselves.

problem solved

[moki]

I'm guilty of downloading tunes and havn't thought about it much. You guys helped put it into perspective, I doubt it will ever happen but it would be really awesome to make money off what I love doing (making music / 3d animation) So fuck it I am gonna start buying more tunes, like you guys said $1.50 isn't much. I just need to get a credit card sorted out some how.

[setspeed]

hey let's all turn a blind eye to countries and people that have been exploited by western nations so we can have nice computers, shoes and super big tvs!!

nothing matters until it begins to affect you...

adapt or die.

so, your attitude is basically "there are bad people in the world therefore I do not need to consider the consequences of my actions"?

[yellowhighlighter]

if you think that is my attitude based on what i've typed then you are obviously quite narrow minded.

to clarify. shit happens in life. the music industry is failing. i'm one person and i'm not going to save it. i could buy more stuff but there would be no point. as i said one person isn't going to save the music industry. so why make myself suffer? just so some people on a message board don't think i'm killing music? i'd rather keep my money...

like i said, if you, or anybody else, wants to purchase music then that's great. but trying to force feed people your beliefs or trying to get into an argument of morals is a waste of time.

i download music from the internet. there is a healthy number of people doing the exact same thing. and none of us are paying for it. you think arguing with me on here is going to change anything?

if for the next five years we bought got the exact same music, except you paid for your music and i just illegally downloaded mine. would either of our individual decisions make much of a difference to the entire music industry?

of course not. one tree does not make a forest.

so in five years we're both in a situation with the same collection of music except you've spent a load of money and i haven't. apart from bragging rights what would you have gained over me? you purchasing music, a single individual, is that going to save the music industry? please see the bigger picture.

people need to get the hell off of their high horses.

it's all good though. art will always exist.

[moki]

[quote="yellowhighlighter"]one tree does not make a forest. quote]

But a forest consist of many trees. I don't think it's gonna get any better for the artists but i'm sure every little bit helps.

[Depone]

lol @ Yellowhighlighter

Always controversial. and to be honest your coming off as being condescending

[setspeed]

to clarify. shit happens in life. the music industry is failing. i'm one person and i'm not going to save it. i could buy more stuff but there would be no point.

but there is a point - there's a moral point (supporting people who make stuff that you like and use and enjoy) and a legal point (it's actually illegal to pirate stuff) and even a self-interest point (support other people and they're more likely to support you in someway). maybe you don't agree with the law, but it's there.

in terms of the world at large, in 10 years time the music industry might be dead but that's no justification for not supporting people whose stuff you take and/or breaking the law. it's like saying you could refrain from murder but there would be no point since we're all going to die anyway. obviously that's on a completely different scale of severity but it just doesn't hold water as an argument; you can't disregard all the points and then say "there's no point" - there are, you're just ignoring them.

likewise, it's fallacious to suggest that just because there's a large number of people involved, that individual choice or influence is somehow negated. if you can't be fucked to support others then fair enough, say so, but to claim that your actions have no consequence because of some other people makes you look like a bit of a loon

[yellowhighlighter]

well i'm half trying to make a serious point and half just trying to bait people into getting angry about why others should buy music. i don't know if it's coming across too well.

anyway it doesn't really matter. at the end of the day people will do what they want to do. discussions are fun but ultimately pointless as people just have different points of view.

in my eyes i see no reason to purchase music as it would have minimal positive affect on the music industry whilst having a massive negative affect on my wallet.

other people obviously see it differently and think that people should support the music industry and artists.

i find the whole idea of "everybody has to do their bit" to be utterly romantic and not really applicable in the real world at all.

my friend is a vegetarian. he doesn't eat meat. he doesn't shove his beliefs down other people's throats and he doesn't think that abstaining from animal products is going to change the world (he is just one person). his choice is a personal one that he is happy with.

if you want to support music then do it but don't expect a medal or anything.

/sounding like a cock rant over.

[yellowhighlighter]

to clarify. shit happens in life. the music industry is failing. i'm one person and i'm not going to save it. i could buy more stuff but there would be no point.

but there is a point - there's a moral point (supporting people who make stuff that you like and use and enjoy) and a legal point (it's actually illegal to pirate stuff) and even a self-interest point (support other people and they're more likely to support you in someway). maybe you don't agree with the law, but it's there.

in terms of the world at large, in 10 years time the music industry might be dead but that's no justification for not supporting people whose stuff you take and/or breaking the law. it's like saying you could refrain from murder but there would be no point since we're all going to die anyway. obviously that's on a completely different scale of severity but it just doesn't hold water as an argument; you can't disregard all the points and then say "there's no point" - there are, you're just ignoring them.

likewise, it's fallacious to suggest that just because there's a large number of people involved, that individual choice or influence is somehow negated. if you can't be fucked to support others then fair enough, say so, but to claim that your actions have no consequence because of some other people makes you look like a bit of a loon

OI!!

to address all your points.

i don't care about the "moral point". i have my own morals.

as for the legality issue it doesn't really matter to me. seriously that is my answer. drinking in public. doing drugs. not having a tv license. burning rubbish in your garden. breaking a red light at 4 o clock in the morning when there is nobody else around. all illegal. the legal consequences for pirating are almost non-existent.

i would help people because i like them, or because i want to help them. not because i am dying for something back in return.

comparing murder and piracy is insanity.

if there is a man being stoned to death and there are 100 people throwing stones. yeah my stones contribute but if if stop throwing stones is the man going to live? no the only positive is that i can tell myself i have a clean conscience.

[setspeed]

yeah i'm not saying "you should do XYZ", i'm saying "your argument doesn't stand up to any logical examination"

i've given up expecting that everyone should pay for music, it's clear which way the wind is blowing and it's also clear that it's a broadly unenforceable law.

it just annoys me when people come up with all these rationalisations and justifications and try to intellectualise what is essentially the act of going "i have considered the arguments for, and decided that i don't particularly give a shite". if you want to disregard the arguments for buying music then that's totally up to you. but to say that there IS no legal argument or moral argument is a nonsense. and the 'everyone else is doing it so therefore it's ok for me to do it too' argument is only legal for use by the under 10s

[xx773xx]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I do enjoy buying albums. I barely have the money to do so, so more often than not I'm searching for files online. I do have this little moral being inside of me that tells me when I do get enough cash that I should buy the album even though I already have it. More often than not I do go out and buy the disc, but sometimes I don't.

The biggest problem I have is that I don't know of any record stores that consistently carry the shit I like. Now with dubstep in my life, I know of even less places to look. Trust me - I'd love to see what some of these discs look like.

[yellowhighlighter]

what the hell is wrong with you?

i'm not trying to justify anything. i download music illegally. i'm simply trying to explain to you WHY i download music illegally and why i don't feel bad about it. like i keep saying one person IS NOT GOING TO SAVE THE MUSIC INDUSTRY.

stop trying to have a discussion of morals with me because it's not going to happen.

so why don't you go ahead and make an argument for why i should purchase music?

you're not even having a discussion with me. you're just lumping me into a big group that pirates music and you're addressing me as if i was that entire mass of people.

buying and supporting music works IF a lot of people are doing it. it has little to do with the individual and more to do with how a large group of people operates.

i don't see the point you're trying to make at all. i know that pirating music is illegal. i know that people worked hard to make that music and they want to be rewarded financially. BUT i also know that there is almost no enforceable law in regards to illegal downloading. i also know that pirating music allows me to listen to a much broader range of genres, it allows me to listen to music i would never consider buying, and it saves me a lot of money. all plus points IMO.

seeing as how this is my life i would rather make myself happy rather than some artist who could have a shitty personality.

i'm just talking about myself in my current situation. if i was to ever start selling tunes i would want people to buy them.

some people here are living in fantasy land in regards to their morals...

[deadly_habit]

those couple bucks we get as royalties mean the world to us and help when we need cables, gear, software etc that we use to hone our craft. one person buying releases helps a load in such an underground market where units don't shift that much in physical form unless you're a bigger name or label. people wonder why some tunes take so long to come out and this is half the reason. life happens and when you are paying out of pocket for everything and seeing lil to breaking even on releases it makes you jaded. in summary support the scene you love, make music you dig, spin what you dig and support tunes and artists you love.

[setspeed]

to say "i could buy music but there is no point" - that is a justification. Justify: verb - "to defend or uphold as warranted or well-grounded".

i dunno, sorry, i fell for your trolling and got wound up. i have been selling music for several years and seen it become steadily less and less of a viable proposition. i can see which way the industry's going and whinging on a forum isn't gonna stop it.

it just bugs me when people can't come out and say "i steal it because i like free shit" and instead say "there's no point in buying it" or "everyone else is doing it so i might as well" or "i am sticking it to the man" or any one of a million other reasons that are clearly false. it's insulting. i was trying to make you see that, not trying to make you suddenly want to pay for music.

although, you're more open than most about it, so fair fucks on that level, i suppose

[abZ]

Ahh Yellowman and there I was agreeing with you. It isn't about saving the industry, I couldn't give two fucks less about saving the industry but throw the producer and label that makes the music happen a bone once in a while. It is a joke what I pay my artists after all this work. They deserve more but there is just no respect for the artist or label anymore. I know fuck me I am the industry, I spend several hours a day of my spare time putting the label together, you know how much profit I make from it? Basically none. The labels percentage goes right back into the label so I can make it better... just so everyone can grab it for free. If you download that shit for free and you don't like it, don't listen to it etc, fine. But if it is a song that speaks to you please consider throwing 2 bucks on it.

If you want to change the industry to what we were talking about earlier, don't steal music, get it free... legally.

[jbag031]

Ill be the first to admit to downloading music. But i don't have some grand delusion that there isnt something inherently wrong with it or that artist are somehow being ungrateful when they complain about it. Im failing to grasp the separation between vinyl and mp3's, just because theres no plastic involved doesnt mean its not theft. Is it ok to walk into a record shop and take whatever you want at the expense of the artist, store owner, label, and manufacturer? It costs money to release tunes and people buying those tunes wont necessarily result in profit for the artists, they may end up losing money. So when your downloading tunes someone is literally PAYING for you to listen to or play them. If you respect and enjoy their work why should they suffer at your expense. You seem to have some sense of entitlement and a perception that you are doing artists some huge favor by buying their tunes. If you want a house built you have to pay the carpenters. Murder rates aren't dropping should we all go find a camera and make our own version of The Poughkeepsie Tapes? Whether or not illegal downloading is inevitable is beside the point. Its theft regardless. You, Me or the general public choosing to ignore that fact has no bearing at all.

[jbag031]

oh and "i steal it because i like free shit"

[cloak and dagger]

Regardless of illegal downloads and theft and all, am I the only one that still has reservations about paying for mp3s? Maybe I'm one of the few that still goes to CD shops and buys CDs, but it honestly feels a little weird to me to pay for an mp3. In fact, I still haven't bought one yet. That doesn't mean I've gone out and illegally downloaded them...it just feels weird paying for data instead of something physical. I copy my CDs to my computer after I buy or rent them, so it almost feels like I'm paying for a copy. Dunno, I was hoping someone could convince me otherwise, maybe I'm just old.