Legend4ry's sub bass tutorial

[deadly_habit]

ahhh so now i r can had wub wub

thx chris


i do have a question tho.

If i have a sub bass and a lowish mid range bass playing simultaneously, is there an exact range in the fequencies i should be rolling off at?

the only reason to cut a freq is if it is conflicting with another sound, say your midrange is in the same range as your snare or a lead synth, pad etc and your gain structuring is causing it to clip when they both play simultaneously

[gnome]

I want to know why some notes sound louder when they are played at a higher key?

Because they are louder I think? different notes have different frequencies?

A sounds frequency doesn't technically have relation to its amplitude, but it does have a relationship how we perceive how loud the frequency is.

See here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E ... son_curves

our ears are more sensitive to a variety of frequencies, and the Fletcher Munson curves show us this

Ah Fletcher Munson! I was a fool to forget lol. Thanks for clearing up my random question guys

[legend4ry]

ahhh so now i r can had wub wub

thx chris


i do have a question tho.

If i have a sub bass and a lowish mid range bass playing simultaneously, is there an exact range in the fequencies i should be rolling off at?

You're welcome bruv.. Personally I would roll off around 200hz and bellow for my mid range, maybe 150hz obviously to give room for your kick, if you got the main punch of the kick hitting around 80-180ish?

[legend4ry]

If you try to filter the low end of a sub you may add nastys as the filter try's to cut it out. so you may make ur low end a little messy, I think.

Maybe one of you experts can clear this up:)
I generally never cut subs.

Well, if you wack out the analyser and check you can steeply cut out anything whats nasty, anyways. I often EQ out anything below 25hz on my sub and anything breaking through party 80hz if there is some little bits what are inaudable, just 2 steep cuts does it nicely.

[faultier]

thx for this thread

[yamaz]

Thread failed to mention that if you want to wobble your sub, to use lfo > volume instead of lfo > filter freq....because subs have no harmonics to filter.

My question is if you want to add sub layer under your mid bass or lead, is it best to use seperate synth layered under your first for the sub action or using one of the free oscillators in the same SINGLE synth....and is there any difference?

For instance I'm using ableton and massive, and if my sick wobble bass needs that extra sub, should I use osc 3 within massive and assign the same lfo I'm using for filter freq but applied to amp so they wobble in unison.....or...use a instrument rack with 2 instances of massive, one as mid bass and another for sub? (Or for better cpu usage, replace massive with Operator for the sub)

I would imagine it should be the same, but you have more control to add saturation or distort sub if its a seperate layered synth...unless(correct me if im wrong) you take your single synth with built-in sub and split frequencies so you can add the saturation/disortion to just the low end...same end product?

[legend4ry]

Thread failed to mention that if you want to wobble your sub, to use lfo > volume instead of lfo > filter freq....because subs have no harmonics to filter.

My question is if you want to add sub layer under your mid bass or lead, is it best to use seperate synth layered under that or using one of the free oscillators n the same synth. AND is there any difference?

For instance I'm using ableton and massive, and if my sick wobble bass needs that extra sub, should I use osc 3 within massive and assign the same lfo I'm using for filter freq but applied to amp so they wobble in unison.....or...use a instrument rack with 2 instances of massive, one as mid bass and another for sub? Or for better cpu usage, replace massive with operator for the sub?

I would imagine it should be the same, but you have more control to add saturation or distort sub if its a seperate layered synth...is this right?

I didn't know people were still making wobble, I thought that trend went a long time ago, I appologise.

And for the record, you can get the exact same wobble effect by playing midi in your sub, theres really no need for the lfo > Volume, unless you want the sub to slightly dip in and out instead of cut out completely and then come in again but you can do this with midi and velocity anyways.

I would run the sine its own VST as you can monitor and treat it better, just make it play the same notes as the mid range.

[yamaz]

Wobbling is dead? Are you being sarcastic or do you mean because people are using envelopes instead?

Anyway, big ups on the thread! I justed wanted to add to it and get some clarification...

[deadly_habit]

wobbling your sub loses some impact to the sub line
best to have it steady under your midrange wubs just fyi

[nitz]

Nice thread Mate

[rawali]

another lil' tip is, if you want your sub to tickle a bit more, use an lfo on the pitch (or vibrato)... very small amplitude (so that it doesn't detune) very high frequency (16th notes works nicely)

lfo's on amplitude can be nice... keep in mind though that if you are lfo'ing amplitude AND using a limiter on the sub channel, you are going to lose some amplitude to your lfo'ing... using velocities would be a much much better idea

also, remember that low frequencies have a wider spread when coming out of a speaker... subs are basically omnidirectional so panning bass seems uterly useless unless you are specifically creating a mix that will be listened to only on headphones... stereo delays/chorus/any other stereo effect would be downright stupid considering that at such low frequencies, you'll get some nasty phasing happening...

using a filter lp or hp is useless (unless as mentionned before, there is a clickedy sound because of the enveloppe... then fix you enveloppe!). Keep in mind that high passing (unless using a perfectly linear filter) will also modify the phase of your sub...


if anything here is wrong, let me know! I don't want to spread bad info

[upstateface]

Nice one legend4ry!

[staticcast]

Thread failed to mention that if you want to wobble your sub, to use lfo > volume instead of lfo > filter freq....because subs have no harmonics to filter.

My question is if you want to add sub layer under your mid bass or lead, is it best to use seperate synth layered under your first for the sub action or using one of the free oscillators in the same SINGLE synth....and is there any difference?

For instance I'm using ableton and massive, and if my sick wobble bass needs that extra sub, should I use osc 3 within massive and assign the same lfo I'm using for filter freq but applied to amp so they wobble in unison.....or...use a instrument rack with 2 instances of massive, one as mid bass and another for sub? (Or for better cpu usage, replace massive with Operator for the sub)

I would imagine it should be the same, but you have more control to add saturation or distort sub if its a seperate layered synth...unless(correct me if im wrong) you take your single synth with built-in sub and split frequencies so you can add the saturation/disortion to just the low end...same end product?

I tend to use an Instrument Rack and have my sub coming out of a separate synth, because it offers more specific treatment than the synth can provide internally (which a sub often needs, or rather, which the mids need), but there's no hard and fast rule. The obvious downside is that if you change certain parameters (particularly pitch envelopes/modulation) in the mid synth you need to change it in the sub as well. You could always assign both to a macro control if you think you're gonna be adjusting it a lot.

@deadly: I disagree that subs should be constant volume. Can work sometimes, but certainly not always; you often just end up with a kinda boring sub...

[collige]

wobbling your sub loses some impact to the sub line
best to have it steady under your midrange wubs just fyi

This. Individual hits in time with the will keep the two meshed together while keeping the sub powerful (think old coki style).

[kontrol]

wobbling your sub loses some impact to the sub line
best to have it steady under your midrange wubs just fyi

can this be side stepped by compression?

[komanderkin]

another lil' tip is, if you want your sub to tickle a bit more, use an lfo on the pitch (or vibrato)... very small amplitude (so that it doesn't detune) very high frequency (16th notes works nicely)

this is awesome advice. gentle pitch vibrato does wonders to subs, but leads, pads and other stuff too.

[staticcast]

wobbling your sub loses some impact to the sub line
best to have it steady under your midrange wubs just fyi

can this be side stepped by compression?

Yeah, but there's not really much point in compressing to remove the wobble that YOU put there...

[narcissus]

bit late
but good post legend! this'll help loads of people

[yamaz]

....wait dont compress your sub? Do you mean only if wobbling it but is ok to do if using single sustained notes? I understand compressing will lose some dynamics so it can boost volume but never thought it would mess with a sub wobble really...if this is the case does compressing mess up your mid range wobble too?

[narcissus]

well look. a sub wobble is just a volume increase/decrease over a beat, half a beat, whatever. a compressor evens out volume so it will make your wobble less dramatic, to the point that you might as well just make it wobble less in the first place.

but don't take my word for it, just go and try it. experiment. you definitely don't have to compress sub. you can also get great sub sounds using compression. we all have our favorite tricks.