what don't you know about music that you wish you did?

[Simbaa]

I saw some posts about key changes and people saying they didn't get them. So ima just throw out some basics for people.

Easiest way to move to a new key is to know before hand that that is what you want to do. If you're writing a track and you've got a 32 bar loop and you decide to change key after having written your 32 bar loop it'll be much harder to do it than it would be if you had decided you wanted a key change before hand. Deciding before hand gives you a chance to write a 32 bar phrase that will move gently into a new key, rather than awkwardly forcing its way into a new one.

One of the most standard key changes is moving to the 5th of whatever key you're in. In C Major this is moving to G. Personally I'm not a fan of moving to the 5th. But it's a strong key change.

Problems you might find that arise in doing this will probably be the large jump that will immediately hit you when you enter G major. You'll feel like "wtf, that melody just went way up out of nowhere". Using chord inversions to keep everything around the same octave will help reduce that feeling greatly.

Another simple and really commonly used key change is moving to the minor third of whatever major you're in (if you're not sure what the minor third is, just count down 3 semitones from your root note, so the minor third of C would be A) This one's used a lot in breakdowns. The thing about key changes is you need to know where to put them really. The hardest part about moving to a new key is knowing when to do it and for how long to keep it up.

Equally if you're in a minor key you can move to the major third. So the major third of A would be C (just count up 3 semitones)

Making a key change actually work a lot of the time is based on not over using it, you need the majority of your track to sit on the root, you only want a brief deviation to a new key but equally if you don't stay in your new key long enough it will sound out of place. So you have to use your ear to decide really.

Also moving from the root to the 4th is used sometimes to create an airy feeling. I really like that key change.

Anyway, I'd go more in depth but I don't really use key changes often enough to be able to give any really good advice on them.

thanks bruv this really helped

[grooki]

I'm really interested in the fact that there's very few replies about rhythm here.

i feel like I have my rhythm down!

jks there is always more to know and learn really. But I just love making drums, interesting little sounds and noises. I love how in drums often the major markers are the kick and snare sounds, but it's really everything else that gives the drums the flavour. I've actually been listeing to a whole lot of old jungle and have been wondering how they get those ride cymbals so damn awesome. I guess that's a production thing though - I can see what they are playing but they way they sort of pump and ebb, I can't figure out how (that's another thread really).


Someone already said this, but i'd like to know more about how to get mystical sounding melodies. I can get there sort of but I'd really like to know more about how

[madmeesh]

I'm really interested in the fact that there's very few replies about rhythm here.

Me too! I'm entirely rhythm oriented right now..

I need to learn how to create wonky grooves and cut up nice quality breaks. (it's hard!!)
Then tracking down superior clap samples and layering them to make those legendary dubstep snares!
Then applying proper amounts of compression + transient shapers to each sample... bussing, routing, parallel compression.. all that stuff still seems really hard.

On the DSF, it seems that we're all at very different levels with theory.. some people can't discern notes from each other, others are writing textbook quality treatises on harmony and progressions. It's cool! My opinion tho is that bare sound design is actually more central to EDM than traditional theory. Pulling off club-worthy beats and basslines with just a computer...that is a mad technical and nerdy feat and one that is more aided by knowledge of drumming and groove patterns than scales. I don't want to generalize tho.. cuz not all of us want to make hench dnb stuff.

But let it be known that there are sad stories of people who dedicate decades to musical theory on a variety of instruments, and actually lose their ability to compose freely because of the structure they impose upon other people's work and their own. Everything in moderation!

[honey-d]

Speaking along the lines of music as structure and music theory: what don't you know that you wish you did? chords, scales? rhythmic things (subdivisions/modulation/etc)? harmony?

Curious as to what the up-and-coming electronic musicians of today are struggling with. I know it can be frustrating and you want to reply "all of it," but go deeper-- what? what parts drive you crazy?

Since I started out with playing instruments and I've taken music theory classes over the years I've gained a pretty competent understanding of theory but the production side of it all is still the part that kills me.

[Mad_EP]

I'm really interested in the fact that there's very few replies about rhythm here.

hehehe - well just yesterday (Tuesday) I was talking to a percussion teacher colleague of mine. I was explaining to him that I feel comfortable with my beats - whether they be from 808/909s or chopped up breaks. On the whole I feel pretty solid, but a style I have never been good at is simulating really good trap-set tom workouts.. so I had him demonstrate some wicked sounding tom breakdowns. Still not sure if I have it down, but he certainly gave me some good ideas.

[ENZA]

I often struggle to crank out a catchy melody which often leads me to feel like alot of my music is generic.

If anyone knows of some methods or practices that aid in development of melodies.. please let me know

Were on the same boat my friend melodies have to be one of my weakest areas

i usually make my melodies on guitar first

playing guitar really gave me an advantage in the whole music theory department.

Only thing i wish i knew was how to keep the listener entertained throughout a song especially in dubstep cuz things tend to get a lil repetitive.

[nowaysj]

I often struggle to crank out a catchy melody which often leads me to feel like alot of my music is generic.

If anyone knows of some methods or practices that aid in development of melodies.. please let me know

A step sequencer like this that doesn't stop chugging

Let's not forget that robots invented modern EDM, it's only recently that humans have gotten involved.

[ENZA]

I'm really interested in the fact that there's very few replies about rhythm here.

i feel like I have my rhythm down!

jks there is always more to know and learn really. But I just love making drums, interesting little sounds and noises. I love how in drums often the major markers are the kick and snare sounds, but it's really everything else that gives the drums the flavour. I've actually been listeing to a whole lot of old jungle and have been wondering how they get those ride cymbals so damn awesome. I guess that's a production thing though - I can see what they are playing but they way they sort of pump and ebb, I can't figure out how (that's another thread really).


Someone already said this, but i'd like to know more about how to get mystical sounding melodies. I can get there sort of but I'd really like to know more about how

for getting some mystical spacy sounds id definetely suggest using summ minor scale progressions and also throw some augmented scale stuff. really minor is where its at for that mystical stuff its just how u stucture ur progression that gets u to where u wanna be.

[nowaysj]

Marketing, building and maintaining fans, making a decent image and profit making

Make new, interesting music that is a natural progression from the music that came before it.

That'll be three dollars.

NEXT

[nowaysj]

i also would like to be more proficient at actually playing the piano, but thats more down to practice (or lack of) than anything else i guess.

Absolutely 2nd this one!

Make that a third, if no one hasn't thirded this already. Must develop a means of deep nuanced human/machine interaction.

[nowaysj]

Struggle with making it the same song but the next bit in it

Yeah boi, that's where it's at.

[nowaysj]

I'm really interested in the fact that there's very few replies about rhythm here.

That's because rhythm is totally unimportant to dubstep now.

[nowaysj]

Let's see, I'm actually progressing on the music theory front. I can look at the keyboard, and actually know which keys are which. That took me 12 years though, so we'll see how far I make it in this life.

I play wack a mole with my music, and I'm getting fucking sick of it. When I feel like I've got rhythm down, my melody falls to shit. When I get super creative with sound design, my mixing goes to shit. When my mixing is tight, my sound design and arrangement are shit. It's like I can never get everything going at the same time. Occasionally, I'll get a couple of these things going at the same time, and a track will progress, but then when I need that third thing... it goes to shit.

I feel like I can't progress any further with rhythm and melody until I get way way way better at arrangement. I feel like I can make pretty good loops of x duration, but have absolutely NO CLUE as how to mutate and progress.


So:

1. Arrangement, song structure/cadence.

2. General Music Theory/Melody - I asked in a thread a couple of weeks ago about how to really work the minor to get that minor sound. Never got a chance to thank y'all, am working on it.

3. Rhythm - focusing on shuffle/swing right now. If I really really focus on drums, I can get it down, but am having a harder time rolling this out into other areas of composition, bass, melody. And it definitely sounds like I'm trying rather than doing.

WHOA introspection. Thank You Dave (HAL 9000 voice).


check the 3 minute crescendo of white noise in that clip

[jobbanaught]

good answers but i'm thinking the structures and theories of music-- how notes fit together in melody, harmony, and rhythm-- not production.

After laying down a basic tune with drums and a bassline, what options do i have to harmonize the bass? I'm sick of building simple chords on the root of the bassline and build melodies of the chord notes... But i dont know nay other way. I follow the basic music theory Ive learnt, but it really starts to bore me out

[wirez]

Marketing, building and maintaining fans, making a decent image and profit making

Make new, interesting music that is a natural progression from the music that came before it.

That'll be three dollars.

NEXT

You sound like my hater, 'Moxxie'.

[boko91]

I wish i knew how to program breakcore drums.

Renoise

[deadly_habit]

everything! i wanna know it all
that and how to play a sax

[wirez]

everything! i wanna know it all

We share a similar fiending for knowledge

[green plan]

After laying down a basic tune with drums and a bassline, what options do i have to harmonize the bass? I'm sick of building simple chords on the root of the bassline and build melodies of the chord notes... But i dont know nay other way. I follow the basic music theory Ive learnt, but it really starts to bore me out

Hmmm I know what you mean. I always try and do chord progressions first (after I get a beat down), then right my bassline to fit that. Gives you call options for putting bass as root, or whatever notes make up your chords. Also having an idea of the chord progression means you can split the notes over a few instruments and voice your chords really interestingly. E.g. have bass playing the 3, keys playing the 1, 3, and 6, and synth playing the 5 whatever. I think having an idea of the musicality you want in your track before you start progressing, arranging helps. I often write the chord progression on simple as horrible sounding keys, just to get the music part sounding nice on its own. Then use the vibe I'm feeling to choose/make sounds.

With melodies I find you can be more free, of course you don't want any horrible clashes but if it sounds right it is in my books. So sometimes I won't stick rigidly to the notes of the chords.

Sorry if that doesn't really help, I'm still starting in this music theory game.

[ajfa]

Swing.

At the moment I just stick my grid on triplets, and use the 1st and third of each triplet. But how to have triplet/non-triplet polyrhythms work at the right time.

Or non-quantized swing. Does being milliseconds early/late really affect the listener subconsciously? Obviously real drummers do this because they're human, not playing off a grid. But does anyone really notice if its quantized or not (within reason obviously, not talking about super wonky stuff which is clearly all over the shop)? Do the really awesome jazz/funk/whatever drummers consciously attempt to play early / late?

Somebody once told me good bass players play just behind the beat, to allow drums to hit through on their own, cant say I've noticed but.