Producer: the new fanboi?

feralbrown · Post by **feralbrown** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:39 pm

*deleted*

parson · Post by **parson** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:42 pm

FeralBrown wrote:I consider it being a good thing...
The more people doing it, the more chance the collective consciousness of humanity has of spitting out something decent...

yes.

parson · Post by **parson** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:44 pm

twatty vagitis wrote: oh ye btw, I make music from time to time...

r u burial

feralbrown · Post by **feralbrown** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:49 pm

Just a bit of extra food for thought...
Taken from THE KING, Squarepusher...

I, Squarepusher, hold the view that the influence of the structural aspect of music making is in general underestimated. By structural aspect, I refer to the machinery of music making eg: acoustic and electric instruments, computers, electronic processing devices etc. Use of a musical machine is obviously accompanied by some level of insight into its construction, operation and capabilities. It is common for a musician to have an awareness of harmonic and stylistic rules which may be observed or otherwise. It seems less common to be critically aware of the structural limitations. This structural limitation is inevitable; an analogy might be to try to talk without the use of a mouth.

This point has a particular pertinence in our present era where so many pre- fabricated electronic devices populate the landscape of contemporary music making. These devices generate ouput according to input combined with mathematically defined rules of transformation, implemented electronically. These rules thus have a direct effect on any musical activity mediated by a given machine. Of course, this is why the machine is employed - to modify sound, generate sound etc. Yet this triviality seems somewhat more significant if one considers that the manufacturers of electronic instruments are thus having a considerable influence on modern music. Indirectly, software programmers and hardware designers are taking part.

A naive notion of creativity seems compromised if we consider that a given musical piece was at least partially dictated by the tools of its realisation. Although I emphasise that never can a musician escape the use of some sort of musical tool, there is nevertheless a choice which is always made, unwittingly or otherwise. We can choose whether to understand what rules the tool imposes on our work, or we can disregard them and leave the manufacturers as "sleeping partners".

I suggest we can enhance creative potential by a critical awareness of the modes of operation of these tools. Thus, I urge an unmasking of these black boxes of the contemporary musical landscape. Circuit bending can be one way - analysing and modifying electronic circuitry. Another is to understand the ways in which musical data is encoded and modified by currently ubiquitous digital means. In addition, various software platforms now exist which, with varying levels of flexibilty, allow users to generate their own instruments.

The modern musician is subject to a barrage of persuasion from manufacturers of music technology. The general implication is that buying new tools leads to being able to make new and exciting music. While it is true that certain degrees of freedom are added by new equipment, it is not the case that this entails wholesale musical innovation. What seems more likely is that new clichés are generated by users unanalytically being forced into certain actions by the achitecture of the machine. For me it is parallel, if not synonymous with a dogmatic consumer mentality that seems to hold that our lives are always improved by possessions.

Imagine the conception of structural rules to do with electric guitars before and after Jimi Hendrix. An instrument is always open to re-definition. Thus I encourage anybody remotely interested in making music to boldly investigate exactly what the rules are to which you, as a modern musician, are subject. Only thus can you have a hope in bending and ultimately rewriting them.

misk · Post by **misk** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:57 pm

FeralBrown wrote:Just a bit of extra food for thought...
Taken from THE KING, Squarepusher...

I, Squarepusher, hold the view that the influence of the structural aspect of music making is in general underestimated. By structural aspect, I refer to the machinery of music making eg: acoustic and electric instruments, computers, electronic processing devices etc. Use of a musical machine is obviously accompanied by some level of insight into its construction, operation and capabilities. It is common for a musician to have an awareness of harmonic and stylistic rules which may be observed or otherwise. It seems less common to be critically aware of the structural limitations. This structural limitation is inevitable; an analogy might be to try to talk without the use of a mouth.

This point has a particular pertinence in our present era where so many pre- fabricated electronic devices populate the landscape of contemporary music making. These devices generate ouput according to input combined with mathematically defined rules of transformation, implemented electronically. These rules thus have a direct effect on any musical activity mediated by a given machine. Of course, this is why the machine is employed - to modify sound, generate sound etc. Yet this triviality seems somewhat more significant if one considers that the manufacturers of electronic instruments are thus having a considerable influence on modern music. Indirectly, software programmers and hardware designers are taking part.

A naive notion of creativity seems compromised if we consider that a given musical piece was at least partially dictated by the tools of its realisation. Although I emphasise that never can a musician escape the use of some sort of musical tool, there is nevertheless a choice which is always made, unwittingly or otherwise. We can choose whether to understand what rules the tool imposes on our work, or we can disregard them and leave the manufacturers as "sleeping partners".

I suggest we can enhance creative potential by a critical awareness of the modes of operation of these tools. Thus, I urge an unmasking of these black boxes of the contemporary musical landscape. Circuit bending can be one way - analysing and modifying electronic circuitry. Another is to understand the ways in which musical data is encoded and modified by currently ubiquitous digital means. In addition, various software platforms now exist which, with varying levels of flexibilty, allow users to generate their own instruments.

The modern musician is subject to a barrage of persuasion from manufacturers of music technology. The general implication is that buying new tools leads to being able to make new and exciting music. While it is true that certain degrees of freedom are added by new equipment, it is not the case that this entails wholesale musical innovation. What seems more likely is that new clichés are generated by users unanalytically being forced into certain actions by the achitecture of the machine. For me it is parallel, if not synonymous with a dogmatic consumer mentality that seems to hold that our lives are always improved by possessions.

Imagine the conception of structural rules to do with electric guitars before and after Jimi Hendrix. An instrument is always open to re-definition. Thus I encourage anybody remotely interested in making music to boldly investigate exactly what the rules are to which you, as a modern musician, are subject. Only thus can you have a hope in bending and ultimately rewriting them.

well feral you cant exactly take any credit for what mr jenkinson said, but what he says is very true. i find that the limitations of a given machine definitely dictate what i make. i know the electribes quantize everything to the nearest 16th note, and though i like them alot, i find myself often asking the question "what if i want to make something thats purposefully unquantized?"

then again, we only use these instruments because we have yet to find something better.

feralbrown · Post by **feralbrown** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:16 am

huh?
I'm not trying to take any credit...

misk · Post by **misk** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:36 pm

oh dude, sorry. i didnt mean to sound like a dick. it was more of a lighthearted comment than anything

panzar-rukkuz · Post by **panzar-rukkuz** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:00 pm

Little Boh Peep wrote:Competition makes you push yourself.

Quality will out.

music is about having fun ... in the first place !

innovating is done by few that are good in having fun

can you imagine how a good guitarist feels ??? i mean there are so many
guitarists that only play covers ... and then those who never play anything different then a powerchord ... they're all musicians tho

forensix (mcr) · Post by **forensix (mcr)** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:00 pm

two oh one wrote:
I'd rather hear a poorly produced track with a spark of originality and a bit of soul, than a perfectly produced, yet uninspired thing. But maybe that's just me.

No its not just you

blk plague · Post by **blk plague** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:44 pm

What I wanna hear (maybe I'll work on it when I've finished my current projects) is more HEAVY FUKN GEETARZ in dubstep!

been trying my hand at this...

mach1nemademan · Post by **mach1nemademan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:46 am

i deff dont lock myself in my studio for hours everyday just cuz i think its cool. its not like being a dubstep producer makes you a hot item.. at least not in pennsylvania.(if i have to hear someone say music is supposed to have words one more time im gonna pop) and ive never tried to emulate what other people are doing because i write to express my ideas and make cool sounds not rehash other peoples dreams. dubstep just gives me a platform thats broad enough to do it on. my stuff might be weird sounding but as long as a beat puts a smile on my face then i can call it finished and move to the next one, each one getting more intricate and polished as i learn new tricks and shortcuts. i think failure is the most important part of elarning this stuff so its very good to have a place like the forums for people to give you honst opinions and show you your mistakes. once egos take over theres little learning going on. theres no doubt, the feeling of someone teling you your music is sick does make it a lot easier to start the next chune, but this is more of an addiction than a hobby heh.

feralbrown · Post by **feralbrown** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:59 am

BLK PLAGUE wrote:
What I wanna hear (maybe I'll work on it when I've finished my current projects) is more HEAVY FUKN GEETARZ in dubstep!
been trying my hand at this...

Sick, man!
Lemme know how it goes!!!

blk plague · Post by **blk plague** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:22 pm

rudeboy,
been trying to use some old metallica riffs pre black album(im a big fan of speed/thrash metal)but its a real challenge. i want more definition between the guitars and saw waves. i might have a 320 of something i put together, maybe i'll link it to you..

feralbrown · Post by **feralbrown** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:05 am

Please do!
I dunno if you're into any of the chunkier, more downtuned stuff, but what *I* was thinking (I have no probs giving my ideas away... as long as they help someone somewhere) was more along the lines of Korn/Coal Chamber/Corporate Avenger type stuff... phat, heavy, plod along type stuff...
but, I might suggest to you: ANYTHING by Devin Townsend (Strapping Young Lad in particular)... also (obviously) SLAYER!!!
But you'd be on a winning streak if you can lift some riffs from Hevy Devy!!! The man is a GOD!!!

Have fun!
Please gimme a 320 when you're comfortable! (not necessarily complete, just comfortable!)

FSTZ · Post by **FSTZ** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:09 am

Misk...what the fuck is a fanboi

LOL

hahahaha

misk · Post by **misk** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:25 pm

unklefesta wrote:Misk...what the fuck is a fanboi

LOL

hahahaha

yeah... festa is SO teh ghey.

deadly_habit · Post by **deadly_habit** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:51 pm

heh only read original post since this is a semi long thread
my take on this (might get a bit long winded):
ok im 24 now been at this lil over 11 years prolly now
originally before being exposed to alot of artists besides cds i got into making ambient, hardcore, hhc just to learn and try to pump out my own ideas and emulate what i heard that i liked
then i started spinning hardcore and still only making tunes for fun
discovered dnb started emulating who i dug to learn it (good old dial up days pre aim and labels being easily accessible)
back then it took some degree of skill to come across audio production warez and appz or *gasp* you had to buy hardware samplers and such
over the years my knowledge increased and so did my production skill and range of styles i became interested in
got older focused on dnb, periodically get bored and go back to my roots or experiment
took a lil hiatus while in army and made some ambient/idm/downtempo while making a bit of dnb
all the while i noticed as the internet started speeding up from 56k to dsl to cable more and more p2p programs and warez sites would pop up and make the production soft and plugins more readily available
about the same time aim came about and along with high speed internet people could send tunes to each other rather quickly
also about the same time when napster popped up vinyl ripping groups like sour started popping up on p2p programs and reg websites rather then irc or newsgroups
anyways as diff genres started to kick off the main forums we now know and love were just starting and people from around the world who had little to no old internet experience could finally converge
ok getting a bit long winded now but thats a lil bit of history, but basically the more people that joined and the faster net speed went (along with availability of software) the more a fan can say damn i wanna try making this too and dl all the soft the want and find all the basic tutorials they need online easily
(what ever happened to reading the manual

)
personally i think its a good and semi bad thing
good in that always there is a diamond in the rough
bad in that you get loads of people wanting instant results rather than taking time to learn through trial and error or a bit of work
blah im stopping myself here, no wonder i use the alias jaded for some tunes

misk · Post by **misk** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:08 pm

yeah theres really nothing wrong with getting into something as a fan, and then deciding to cross that 'bridge' and actually get into the making of that something.

as a matter of fact, im pretty sure that about oh, 99% of people who produce dubstep started as fans.

this thread wasnt about establishing legitimacy as a producer either, i just see a lot of people producing these days, and wondered what was up

deadly_habit · Post by **deadly_habit** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:13 pm

whats always up is people seem to think its easy to get plates released and that there is actually cash in the scene to make a quick buck
contrary to whats actually going on in dnb or a semi new scene like dubstep
then again if people wanted to make money making electronic music they should go to trance

deadly_habit · Post by **deadly_habit** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:15 pm

Mach1neMadeMan wrote:i deff dont lock myself in my studio for hours everyday just cuz i think its cool. its not like being a dubstep producer makes you a hot item.. at least not in pennsylvania.(if i have to hear someone say music is supposed to have words one more time im gonna pop) and ive never tried to emulate what other people are doing because i write to express my ideas and make cool sounds not rehash other peoples dreams. dubstep just gives me a platform thats broad enough to do it on. my stuff might be weird sounding but as long as a beat puts a smile on my face then i can call it finished and move to the next one, each one getting more intricate and polished as i learn new tricks and shortcuts. i think failure is the most important part of elarning this stuff so its very good to have a place like the forums for people to give you honst opinions and show you your mistakes. once egos take over theres little learning going on. theres no doubt, the feeling of someone teling you your music is sick does make it a lot easier to start the next chune, but this is more of an addiction than a hobby heh.

yea for me dubstep appealed to me just like ambient and idm since its nowhere near as constricting about shit like dnb

Producer: the new fanboi?

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