spreading hi hats and shakers?

[dav.id]

I heard 'the people' say you need to spread you hats and shakers....is this a neccesary thing?

I always pan my hi hats -2 -3 -4 -5 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 etc and other percussion ellements even more

so what do you guys normaly do with your hats etc?

[SunkLo]

Depends a lot on the rest of the percussion and the balance of the track but hats are usually a bit off-center and everything else gets panned out about halfway maybe. If there's other instruments like strings and things panned out too it might be different.

[chewie]

Try this bro - have the hats/shakers all grouped together and duplicate it so you have 2 groups now pan 1 hard left the other hard right, have one group 1 or 2 ms delayed, see what that sounds like

[green plan]

Try this bro - have the hats/shakers all grouped together and duplicate it so you have 2 groups now pan 1 hard left the other hard right, have one group 1 or 2 ms delayed, see what that sounds like

Absolutely love me some sample delay action. One of my favourite things at the mo, with synths too makes them sound so full. For panning, which I'm really just getting into, normally go a bit crazy. Especially for things like a time ghost hit or something, have that panned fully left, sending to an extended delay panned fully right etc. Shakers quite wide (about half), hats a bit further in. Often my open hat if it's doing 4ths will be near centre. Haven't got too into logic stereo spreader b/c I don't really understand how it works. Anyone want to spill some knowledge gravy?

[meer]

Sum it to mono and watch it all disappear, though.

[collective]

A three point delay woudl work great, three instances, one normal, one panned left at 45 ms, and one panned right at 90ms delay, nice and wide. Watch out for phase issues.

[ketamine]

Depends on the style I'm chasing...

--For Burial / Mum crackle tunes anything goes.

--For James Blake / Mount Kimbie material I pan and mix like I would for R&B / HipHop which means, generally speaking, no greater than around -25 / +25 (in headphones this will sound hard panned left or right BTW for reasons I don't feel like typing out right now).

--For Rukso / Dancefloor smasher type stuff all drums including hi hats are mono. EQ & Volume to separate them.

I wouldn't suggest using wideners or anything on your final mix either, that's for the mastering stage.

[green plan]

Sum it to mono and watch it all disappear, though.

Yeah always wondered about that. Is stuff regularly summed to mono?

[ketamine]

Sum it to mono and watch it all disappear, though.

Yeah always wondered about that. Is stuff regularly summed to mono?

Yes. I heard a James Blake trune completely fall apart in a club. It sounded very thin. That kind of stuff is made for stereo listening, while club smashers are pretty mono tunes tbh, minus the pads and such...

[green plan]

Interesting, is that cause big rigs are normally mono? Worth checking tunes with a mono sum before you send it out to be played I guess. Seems weird though. I like writing tunes for systems and stereos....

[bustadoug]

Try this bro - have the hats/shakers all grouped together and duplicate it so you have 2 groups now pan 1 hard left the other hard right, have one group 1 or 2 ms delayed, see what that sounds like

works well on vocals or samples too- manual spread

[JFK]

Try this bro - have the hats/shakers all grouped together and duplicate it so you have 2 groups now pan 1 hard left the other hard right, have one group 1 or 2 ms delayed, see what that sounds like

works well on vocals or samples too- manual spread

This is interesting guys. Normally hard panning left/right is considered a bit of a no no, but this sounds wicked.

Are you hard panning the vocal example as well busta?

[dav.id]

ey, thx guys I would try some of the things in here....de paned delay is a new one for me

thx alot

[chewie]

Sum it to mono and watch it all disappear, though.

Yep it does so lets go a little deeper into the rabbit hole...

This is a simple method of making sure your track works in a club by maintaining mono compatibility but at the same time being wide. Now this thing is a trade off you can't have a wide mix or wide separate elements without issues with phase correlation and loss of sound in mono compatibility.
So anyway if you stick a mono utility onto your master bus and elements start to sound thin or even disappear. This is something to try ( worth a shot and if you don't like it don't bother). It's a very basic M/S technique. I'll use the hihats again as an example ( sorry i sense a thread hijack here)

Now you have the hat on 2 groups - 1 panned hard left the other panned right. 1 of those is delayed by a few ms.
If you check it in mono - hey presto it sounds like shit.
Turn off the outputs of both channels and then send them to two busses. Name 1 bus MID and the other SIDE. Send both the left and right group the original amount of signal.
Now i use BX control for this but voxengo have a free m/s plug called msed that does the exact same thing.
On the MID bus solo the mid portion which will effectively make it mono.
On the SIDE bus solo the side bands which will keep the stereo spread without losing mono compatibility when both are layered together.
Check for yourself by sticking a mono utility on the master channel afterwards.
Try this on all those pad/background sounds that thin out like a bitch when you put a mono utility on the master channel and you might be pleasantly surprised. Remember it is a trade off so it wont sound quite as wide as before but then again wont be out of phase either.

Don't forget panning either. I quite like this quote from the Late Don Smith - ‘‘I check my panning in mono with one speaker, believe it or not. When you pan around in mono, all of a sudden you’ll find the space for something that was masked before. If I want to find a place for the hi-hat, for instance, sometimes I’ll go to mono and pan it around until all of a sudden, it’s really present, and that’s the spot. When you start to pan around in mono on all your drum mics, you’ll hear all the phase come together. When you go to stereo, it makes things a lot better.’’

[green plan]

Thank you so much Chewie. Guessing that is mid side processing or something? Really can't wait to get into that. Have always been confused about the stereo field and how panning works within it. If you want to keep talking you have someone listening.

[JFK]

Wrong thread. Im a dick.

[skimpi]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/free-qualit ... 55788.html

Halfway down this page mate. Look harder!

Think your on the wrong thread mate

[gnome]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/free-qualit ... 55788.html

Halfway down this page mate. Look harder!

Think your on the wrong thread mate

He has eaten way too many freddos

[JFK]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/free-qualit ... 55788.html

Halfway down this page mate. Look harder!

Think your on the wrong thread mate

Ooops what a bell end. Coat got......... aaaannnd Im gone!

[dav.id]

Sum it to mono and watch it all disappear, though.

Yep it does so lets go a little deeper into the rabbit hole...

This is a simple method of making sure your track works in a club by maintaining mono compatibility but at the same time being wide. Now this thing is a trade off you can't have a wide mix or wide separate elements without issues with phase correlation and loss of sound in mono compatibility.
So anyway if you stick a mono utility onto your master bus and elements start to sound thin or even disappear. This is something to try ( worth a shot and if you don't like it don't bother). It's a very basic M/S technique. I'll use the hihats again as an example ( sorry i sense a thread hijack here)

Now you have the hat on 2 groups - 1 panned hard left the other panned right. 1 of those is delayed by a few ms.
If you check it in mono - hey presto it sounds like shit.
Turn off the outputs of both channels and then send them to two busses. Name 1 bus MID and the other SIDE. Send both the left and right group the original amount of signal.
Now i use BX control for this but voxengo have a free m/s plug called msed that does the exact same thing.
On the MID bus solo the mid portion which will effectively make it mono.
On the SIDE bus solo the side bands which will keep the stereo spread without losing mono compatibility when both are layered together.
Check for yourself by sticking a mono utility on the master channel afterwards.
Try this on all those pad/background sounds that thin out like a bitch when you put a mono utility on the master channel and you might be pleasantly surprised. Remember it is a trade off so it wont sound quite as wide as before but then again wont be out of phase either.

Don't forget panning either. I quite like this quote from the Late Don Smith - ‘‘I check my panning in mono with one speaker, believe it or not. When you pan around in mono, all of a sudden you’ll find the space for something that was masked before. If I want to find a place for the hi-hat, for instance, sometimes I’ll go to mono and pan it around until all of a sudden, it’s really present, and that’s the spot. When you start to pan around in mono on all your drum mics, you’ll hear all the phase come together. When you go to stereo, it makes things a lot better.’’

thank you for this post, I'm gonna try this:)