secret behind the kick?

[equaleyez]

Ok, so after 3-4 years of electronic music production, with ups and downs in dubstep/breaks/dub/hiphop/triphop/... i'm still struggling with my kicks
I'm just looking for that 'boom' effect, i don't mean sub bass but the right combination of bass mid high compression.
And i'm not talking just dubstep, here's a timbre/sound I try to achieve, it's Kanka, a big influence for me : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcv8BbCR ... r_embedded

Here's what I usually do: I browse my kick samples (tried some vst that create kicks but don't like 'em so much), usually my MPC3000 kit but also maybe my VEX amen break cut up pack and try finding a good sample that fits the part i already got. I try to listen careful to it and see what's missing. I almost always send it to a multiband equalizer, where I boost the bass and some higher frequencies if needed. Then I compress it (some more), i play around with the bass mid high to get the 'desired' sound, however, in combination with bass and keys it doesn't come out as well. AND YES, i do use the sidechain compression technique so that the bass goes down when the kick kicks...

Anyway, anybody got some tips?

[volcanogeorge]

My only real tip is that what matters most is the sample you start with. You can't add frequencies that aren't there, and a good base sample means you have to do as little as possible to it. Maybe get some more sample packs?

[komanderkin]

You CAN add frequencies that aren't there

by layering, for example.

[hurlingdervish]

if you are using multiple elements for a kick try this

have 3 different samples, busses or channels so that you can seperate them by sub/smack/high end

then if you swap out different samples for each EQ range you can make a better layer without conflicting and just adding gain.

also if you do it this way you can side chain with the sub layer ONLY from the kick instead of losing the mid/high character that makes it a kick and not a bass

[jaydot]

For a beginner like myself a decent sample is the key, so then I have minimal work. I'd like to get different sounding kick drums but atm all I'm achieving is generic thud-slap kicks that sound like any other,

[volcanogeorge]

You CAN add frequencies that aren't there

by layering, for example.

Alright I probably should have phrased it "You can't add frequencies that aren't there by using an EQ". Layering is a good technique, but if it can be avoided, it makes it so much simpler

[paravrais]

Don't overcomplicate things. It's easy to think your advancing by using 2 layers then 3 then 4 etc when actually your just going backwards because you don't know what it is that you were missing in the first place your just trying to get to where you want to be by adding more and more and your basically staggering in the dark. Don't add an extra layer unless there is something *specific* your looking to add to the sound and you have a sample in your collection that will definitely do the job.

Keep it simple, choose good samples, don't go overboard with the EQ/Compression and mix the rest of the track around the kick and snare.

EDIT: Just realised I missed a bit of your post. Don't bother with the side-chaining until you know exactly what your using it for. If your mixdown is good you WONT need it. I promise. It also sounds like you might be cutting your low frequencies too low. You don't want bass in there, I know people call it a bass drum but really your kick wants to sit predominantly in the lower mid areas.

[Sharmaji]

if you're starting w/ good samples, keep it simple. most sample packs are made up of already extremely processed sounds-- cutting out errant eq's is often all that's needed to get 70-80% there.

after that, compress/limit etc to make things work in the track.

by multiband, do you mean multiband compression? or just a simple EQ.

and yeah, ultimately it comes down to mixing. i usually start a mix w/ the kick peaking around -9, and most of my mixes wind up peaking around -3 to -1.

sidechaining, sure, if that's the sound you want.

99% of the time, some combination of the drums (kick/snare/hat/maybe percussion,etc) are all going to a drum buss which gets parallel-compressed & saturated, and gets the drums sounding huge. if I need more kick to cut through after that, i'll send the kick, alone, to a bus that has no compression on it--really let it push through all the elements of the mix.

quite often compression will just wind up making your kick sound smaller--- which can be great, i'll definitely squash a kick, maybe in parallel, taking off 20db so you just get the attack, and then bring that back in... but again, usually in parallel to the original sound.

so, overview: keep it simple. less eq, less compression. try compressing in parallel rather than completely changing the dynamics of the sound and giving you no 'out' of the process.

then, boom, build the track around the drums. build it so that the drums feel a bit TOO loud.

[equaleyez]

Thanks for the tips..



@ Sharmaji: i think i made a mistake.. I use a parametric eq and multiband compression

[Ldizzy]

may sound weird, but ive slept a long time on adding a little overdrive to my kicks... that is before i saw depones tutorial... could help you

hvr, the thing that hit me most out of your post is u didnt mention layering. Its really a must for me (and prolly for those who replied about it just before). Find a tool that allows u to stack samples and manipulate their adsr or do it direcly in ur daw with the adsr of ur kick samples.. whatever doesnt affect your workflow. then, layer some but dont just stack em... I find that using the attack of a certain kick with the body and tail of another (or some others) really helps me to achieve what i want way more easily then pathetically trying to eq the crap out of a not-so-bad sample.

if u feel like ur kicks dont sit as they should, try and tune them. if u have a tuner, stick the tuner to the kicktrack and see if it could read it (needs a somewhat long tail for that), if u dont, pitch it up until its distinguishably tuned to ur melody, then put it back where it should. of course, then, eqing can help.

one thing that this forum taught me is to work with poise and details... rarely a good idea to overprocess ur samples if u dont want them to sound like crap...

[Sharmaji]

Thanks for the tips..



@ Sharmaji: i think i made a mistake.. I use a parametric eq and multiband compression

that already sounds like too much work. a good kick in dance music-- even an acoustic one in disco, or an acoustic sample-- is a pretty bandpassed affair. some info around 40-60, some around 100-125, gunk thru 250-800, some knock around 1k and some attack around 3k. not alot to make use of w/ multiband, considering that you're gonna be dealing w/ phase shift, etc.

stick to eq for the most part, and a bit of comrpession-- but again, dynamically controlling already-squashed samples ususally just winds up making them sound smaller.

[-[2]DAY_-]

ugh no multiband on a drum! not even on a whole kit! maybe in mastering. Multiband comp has a way of chasing its own tail in my experience. Then again, I'm probably just using it poorly. Still it has no place being used on one track like that.

[Basic A]

ugh no multiband on a drum! not even on a whole kit! maybe in mastering. Multiband comp has a way of chasing its own tail in my experience. Then again, I'm probably just using it poorly. Still it has no place being used on one track like that.

This, but colored ones can have there purpose in the bus saturation and parrelel work stage sharm was talking about up there. Warmth.

[Ldizzy]

ugh no multiband on a drum! not even on a whole kit! maybe in mastering. Multiband comp has a way of chasing its own tail in my experience. Then again, I'm probably just using it poorly. Still it has no place being used on one track like that.

This, but colored ones can have there purpose in the bus saturation and parrelel work stage sharm was talking about up there. Warmth.

id be intrested in reading a more detailed post on that. u use it often? how? sounds really interesting

[deadly_habit]

subtract subtract on orig samples and layer
if you're gonna use multiband prolly will make more of a mess of the sound unless you know exact frequency points on it
less is more def applies to kicks
until the main kick or main drum buss
most has been touched on, just experiment people
hell i'm still messing about for those epic deep kicks like: that seem to fill the spectrum, and not the passed with bass hit

[BananaBomber]

Best Advice Ive Ever Been Given Was By Depone

Download camelcrusher which is a free distortion plugin by camel audio

and add a little bit of tube and mech distortion to your kicks it gives em alot of punch and gives it more harmonic density which makes it wider

[BananaBomber]

[Kochari]

I like to scoop the mids for a more solid sound, also overdrive (slightly) and compression.

But really it is mainly about the right samples and the mix as a whole

[studio dread]

going against the hole less is more eq philosophy etc, i find 'quadrafuzz' in cubase great for getting things to sit right / sound how i want them to. Its a multiband distortion plug but can sound subtle when needed

[RAVE]

99% of the time, some combination of the drums (kick/snare/hat/maybe percussion,etc) are all going to a drum buss which gets parallel-compressed & saturated, and gets the drums sounding huge. if I need more kick to cut through after that, i'll send the kick, alone, to a bus that has no compression on it--really let it push through all the elements of the mix.

what is saturating?