Dubby guitar echoey technique

[Grime Syndicate]

So, I saw this video a year or two ago and in it, ed solo mentions a particular technique he uses to create his dubbed out guitars. I can't actually watch the video again as I'm at work and there's no streaming video allowed. And my internet at home has taken a shite. So, anyways, if I remember right, the guitar just sounds a bit spaced out with an echo/delay on it. I'm sure a similar sound could be created with reverb and delay effects, but I'm interested in the PARTICULAR technique he is referring to. He talks about feeding the guitar's signal back onto itself and creating a feedback loop? (again, can't watch the vid, sorry if I'm getting the terminology wrong.) Is this a hardware technique or software? Can the technique be translated to software routing, even if the routing he refers to is hardware based? Just a little tech tip sorta thread. I did search about the forum some, but as I'm not sure of the exact terminology he uses, I'm not having much luck. Any illumination on the subject would be much appreciated.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JRKxlpDZ2E

[hurlingdervish]

real feedback on delays comes from routing the channel its on back into itself. by default things are usually really "safe" in DAWs so you dont get feedback. what you could do is put the delay and verb on a send 100 percent wet then send the send to itself. i dont know if your mixer in the daw will be capable of this.
you need to then have complete control in your hands over the feedback of the delay, the amount of the channel fed back into itself, and the volume of the output. so either you spend hours trying to figure out the balance of each with your mouse, or you midi assign it and try to tame the beast. it can be quite tricky to pull off right but the results are worth it.
different effects added into the chain can have different dubby effects you wouldn't be able to predict.

[studio dread]

doing this with hardware means the delay gets slightly more dirty each time it does the loop and passes through everything. If you can get a loop going in your software you might want to put a saturating plug on the channel.

That or there are some plugs with a nice feedback sound here http://www.interruptor.ch/dub_fx.shtml

[Sirius]

I love doing this shit as a live engineer! feedback delays are god! in logic ya can get it sounding quite nice...
make another instance of the track ya wana fuck wif, but with no output
create a pre send to a bus, make this a delay bus @ 1/8 or whatever, then make 2 sends on this bus,
1 a reverb & the other a send back into itself!
put a compressor on the channel strip & side chain to some swung out hats is always good too

then if ya have a controller with knobs... assign them all & its a good idea to assign a knob to hi pass & low pass!

a low passed bassline with reverb & get ya feedback loop going hard on it sounds crazy!!
also ya can make an audio track that has the buses signal as the input & record it as your playing around to capture some of the madness!!chea

[Grime Syndicate]

I've got a Tascam US144 audio interface. Think I could do the routing physically with this? I've got an electric guitar i run thru it. Just route it back into itself maybe?

[Sirius]

ya wana chuck a delay on an aux! feed that signal back into itself via the send on ya gat channel. like how would you send a gat back into its self? have you got any outbord processors.... or pedalz?

!!chea

[Grime Syndicate]

ya wana chuck a delay on an aux! feed that signal back into itself via the send on ya gat channel. like how would you send a gat back into its self? have you got any outbord processors.... or pedalz?

!!chea

I have not. I've just got the old strat, the audio interface, an MXL 990 condenser mic, my M-Audio Bx5a monitors. Oh, and an M-Audio Oxygen 8 second version keyboard. It does have the assignable knobs mentioned above, though. For what I've been doing so far, my setup has been perfectly sufficient. Everything I need with nothing I don't. Been wondering how to setup a sub for my monitors with what I've got. Don't know what out's i'd run it out of and/or the amp to run it. Or if I should use an active sub since the monitors are active? But this is a major tangent. I should stick to the subject at hand.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far though guys. Great stuff so far.

oh, and Sirius, whatchu mean gat? guitar?

[Sirius]

yeh bro gat=guitar. what DAW are ya using?
I reckon ya worrying about ya sub to much... it not a necessity like. just use a home stereo with a sub as a reference.
chea

[Grime Syndicate]

I love doing this shit as a live engineer! feedback delays are god! in logic ya can get it sounding quite nice...
make another instance of the track ya wana fuck wif, but with no output
create a pre send to a bus, make this a delay bus @ 1/8 or whatever, then make 2 sends on this bus,
1 a reverb & the other a send back into itself!
put a compressor on the channel strip & side chain to some swung out hats is always good too

then if ya have a controller with knobs... assign them all & its a good idea to assign a knob to hi pass & low pass!

a low passed bassline with reverb & get ya feedback loop going hard on it sounds crazy!!
also ya can make an audio track that has the buses signal as the input & record it as your playing around to capture some of the madness!!chea

I use Ableton Live. So, tell me if i'm following ya. I send my audio or midi channel with some guitar stabs to a return channel. Make it ONLY send to the return channel, with no other output. Here's where i get mixed up. I send the audio from the my audio channel to the 1: reverb effect on a different return channel, and ALSO 2: to a delay return which goes back into itself as well. When I try to do this, it gives me the send knob to the reverb return channel, but when i turn up the knob on the delay return channel to send it to the reverb return, it shows no audio coming out of the reverb return. I must be fuckin it up somehow, but not sure how. Wait! as I type this, I figured it out. Apparently the send knobs on returns have to be enabled! Why the fuck wouldn't they be enabled from the get go? isn't that what the fucking knob is for? And OH MY GAAAWD. SOUNDS FUCKIN DOPE. SIRIUS, you are my HERO, bra! One thing to note, I've gotta put the send that feeds back into itself at about half or it starts to get louder and Louder and LOUDER, which makes sense, but i almost blew my shit. LOL Thank you man. This sound is EPIC

[Grime Syndicate]

So, in summary, this effect can be applied via software only, and what's more, it sounds absolutely beautiful. I'm running some horn loops I made awhile ago thru it. The bee's knees are quivering. I consider this sound essential when putting the dub back in dubstep. World, watch out. I'm on my way.

[Sirius]

massive bro!! yeah i have been playing around with the dubby side of things for awhile. now start bringing in different pieces whenever ya want & have afew different delays to chop it up abit. put an acapella track in thea & play around with it. heaps of shit ya can do now... have fun!! my fav is low pass bass echos.. put a limiter on the send if ya dont want it to go out of control.
with the feedback loops... ya just gota find the balance!
chea!!

[Grime Syndicate]

@Sirius: You, my friend, are the man. Just know that. Much love, peace, and unity coming your way.

[gnome]

Nice one sirius! Just been messing around with that. Simple!

[disco.infiltrator]

Let's explain this technique and pretend that I have no knowledge of buses, sends or returns or any of that. For Ableton please.

I get the concept, just not the exact application.

[Sirius]

Let's explain this technique and pretend that I have no knowledge of buses, sends or returns or any of that. For Ableton please.

I get the concept, just not the exact application.

I have no idea...
if people don't understand the terms - Aux/Buss, Send & returns... then they aren't ready for this ay.
go study some king tubby/lee perry/prince jammy/mad professor etc.
& then google feedback loop.
look at how ya make dub as a live/studio engineer.

I don't use ableton very often & can't give ya a step by step process ay!
not tryna be a dick... but learn & experiment.

!!chea

[gnome]

Let's explain this technique and pretend that I have no knowledge of buses, sends or returns or any of that. For Ableton please.

I get the concept, just not the exact application.

Allow me. At the side of session view you have 2tracks called A return and B return

Now on A return select "audio to" and send it to "audio 1"

Add a ping pong delay to A return

Create a new audio track and add a drum loop or whatever

Now under your new track "audio 2" there is an "a" and "b" knob turn A up full this will send your signal to the A return 100%

On "audio 1" you must now turn the monitor to "in" it will automatically be set to auto

[Grime Syndicate]

Interesting Gnome, but not how I did it. I threw a horn loop on audio 1. Then set the "audio to" setting to "sends only." At this point, turn send knob "A" (located right below the "audio to" selector) all the way up. Now go to your Return A. Throw a dub delay on it. I like Tal Dub 1, 2, or 3, but whatever delay you choose should be fine. Set your delay to say, 1/8 to start with. You can change it at any time. Now, this is where I got caught up, right click on your send knobs in this return and enable them. Now put a reverb unit on return B. Send return A to Return B fully, and send Return A back to itself by turning the send A knob up to about half. Go much beyond half and the feedback loop starts to build on itself til it blows your speakers. Don't do that. That is bad.

You won't see the "audio to" selector, nor will you see the send knobs on anything, nor the returns, unless you click on the little buttons at the far right of the screen that say "I/O", "R", and "S". Do this first, obviously.

Hope this helps

One great thing to note about this routing is that ableton still allows you to freeze the audio track to free up CPU usage. (However, where all the effects are on the returns, I'm not sure if this actually frees up anything, or just makes me feel better.) Insight into this would be appreciated.