A very sincere, but *very* sensitive question for someone

[fretn]

interesting subject.... I'm guna go sideways kinda.

In my country we learnt fuck all about our history when I was at school,
espesh when it came to the colonisation & attempted slaughter of my people.

Times have changed & the history is being taught in a more concise fashion nowadays....

Question is... what were yall in the UK (& other places) taught about what happened in
New Zealand?? Did yall ever study Maori people or anything like that?

!!chea

Well, to be honest we haven't seen anything about the maori's or aboriginals, and the picture they paint is one of "the noble wild".

[christophera]

white people are amnesiac alien invaders

[Badman Juice]

interesting subject.... I'm guna go sideways kinda.

In my country we learnt fuck all about our history when I was at school,
espesh when it came to the colonisation & attempted slaughter of my people.

Times have changed & the history is being taught in a more concise fashion nowadays....

Question is... what were yall in the UK (& other places) taught about what happened in
New Zealand?? Did yall ever study Maori people or anything like that?

!!chea

probably can at uni. wouldn't really make any sense to teach it as a compulsory topic.

[alphacat]

The maxim that "history is written by the winners" is so, so not true in a literal sense. I mean... look at the Bible - it was written by Jews, who could hardly be called the winners of history in any obvious way.

History should never, ever be regarded as a static/objective perspective. How history is perceived and remembered says as much about who's doing the perceiving & remembering as the actual subject of the history at hand itself. In Napoleon's day, there were a sizable number of people who thought he was anything from a horrible, murderous tyrant to the Antichrist; the majority of people outside of France did not see him as a heroic, noble statesman. He was an Imperialist that burned cities and killed women and children. Yet 200 years later? Most people think of him as some short, dashing casanova political genius with an emo haircut.

The same thing could very well happen to the perception of Hitler if we don't directly address the subject with our kids - if the only legacy left of Hitler in 100 years are autobahns and sports arenas and Volkswagens, people might fail to understand how powerfully bad the man and the ideas he associated with were.

[Badman Juice]

I'd be very surprised if that became the case, I don't think the holocaust will be easily forgotten.

[noam]

if jews are good at one thing its remembering people that owe them something... i doubt we'll forget about Hitler anytime soon

what probably will happen which is inevitable with time is we disengage from the reality of what happens, and it becomes another story. the characters are dehumanized and become fictitious despite the story remaining in most ways the same as it was previously.

with dehumanization and fictionalisation of history we become desensitized to the point we could all recount the facts and figures, individual stories and what is essentially a plot but this is devoid of any real emotion

kinda what i think on the matter... was a bit of a rant

[Badman Juice]

if jews are good at one thing its remembering people that owe them something... i doubt we'll forget about Hitler anytime soon

not sure if serious.


it's pretty hard to forget the horror of the holocaust cos we have photos and video footage of emaciated children and piles of skulls.

[noam]

if jews are good at one thing its remembering people that owe them something... i doubt we'll forget about Hitler anytime soon

not sure if serious.


it's pretty hard to forget the horror of the holocaust cos we have photos and video footage of emaciated children and piles of skulls.

semi-serious

im half jew half muslim by blood... if anyone has the right to poke fun i feel i do.

[magma]

Question is... what were yall in the UK (& other places) taught about what happened in
New Zealand?? Did yall ever study Maori people or anything like that?

Not when I was at school. My school did a module on the American West for GCSE (16 years old) and I think they considered the small amount about the Native Americans as covering 'tribal' life the world over, which of course it doesn't. I dunno how possible it is to teach kids the history of every major country on the planet before they're 16, mind...

I've always considered the most important aspect of history to be the story of the human character, or the character of the societies that they've inhabitied as time has gone on. Once you understand why society acts the way it does, you can have a much better crack at changing it for the better. So I'd consider learning about Hitler to be fairly important for Germans, just as learning about the massively less successful but still deeply unpleasant Blackshirts is important for kids in the UK. There's a reason those ideas got thrown out... people should be familiar with those reasons.

[capo ultra]

The maxim that "history is written by the winners" is so, so not true in a literal sense. I mean... look at the Bible - it was written by Jews, who could hardly be called the winners of history in any obvious way.

Jews own everything

anyway I would content that Christians wrote (most) of the bible, and they won

[capo ultra]

it's pretty hard to forget the horror of the holocaust cos we have photos and video footage of emaciated children and piles of skulls.

Japs killed more Chinese civilians than German's killed Jews during ww2

uh-oh banhammer

[Badman Juice]

yeah but that's mitigated by the fact their own governments slaughter them in the millions.

[noam]

it's pretty hard to forget the horror of the holocaust cos we have photos and video footage of emaciated children and piles of skulls.

Japs killed more Chinese civilians than German's killed Jews during ww2

uh-oh banhammer

for the record i didnt actually say whats in that quote... i dont know where you got that from? weren't me anyway

[magma]

Jews own everything

2010 Rich List:

#1 Carlos Slim Helu & family (christian)
#2 William Gates III (athiest, born christian)
#3 Warren Buffett (athiest/agnostic, born christian)
#4 Mukesh Ambani (Hindu)
#5 Lakshmi Mittal (Hindu)
#6 Lawrence Ellison (American/Jewish)
#7 Bernard Arnault (French/Jewish)
#8 Eike Batista (Christian/non practising)
#9 Amancio Ortega (Christian)
#10 Karl Albrecht (German Christian, father served in WW2 so certainly not Jewish)


Yeah, not so much.

Hindus comin on' strong, but Christianity has had the planet on lock for centuries now. The anti-semetic conspiracy theories have really helped them cement their position as the dominant religious group. I doubt it was intentional marketing, but it's done them the world of good.

There are plenty of poor Jews just as there are poor Christians, Sikhs, Hindus and Jedi. People have got to stop separating people via religion... it's just as bad and potentially a lot more damaging than straight racism when it's used like this, because it becomes so pervasive... I've NEVER known an unpleasant jew (I've not known many unpleasant people), but almost everything I read as a curious late teenager told me that if I was gonna "wise up" I should fear them. That's fucking evil.

[alphacat]

Jews own everything

anyway I would content that Christians wrote (most) of the bible, and they won

Not gonna touch that opener, but...

The first half of the Bible? About the most sacred text in Judaism (the Torah.)

Second half? About a Jew who was allegedly the king of the Jews fulfilling Jewish messianic prophecy, and the acts of the people following him who wanted to see the prophecy come to pass. Everything in the Bible was written by Jews unless I'm mistaken: none of the apostles were gentiles.

Not to mention that Christianity is basically a radical breakaway sect of Judaism...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_of_e ... nd_Judaism

[seckle]

im half jew half muslim by blood... if anyone has the right to poke fun i feel i do.

wow. what do you do during eid/ramadan/hannukah? just curious, if you don't want to explain, totally understandable.

[noam]

im half jew half muslim by blood... if anyone has the right to poke fun i feel i do.

wow. what do you do during eid/ramadan/hannukah? just curious, if you don't want to explain, totally understandable.

never really celebrated any of them, used to do the jewish ones when i was a kid cos my mum was into it, but the older we've got the more distant we've become from both sides of the family really so religious celebrations are kind of a non-event! we do persian new year to some extent (my dad is from Iran) and depending how my parents are feeling we sometimes have no pork in the house but i usually just go out and buy bacon when i want it anyway!

we buy each other xmas presents and have xmas dinner etc. but its more of a novelty thing than a serious 'Right... we're gona fucking celebrate christmas!' kind of thing

its an interesting mix, but its a lot more common than i ever thought it was, especially with Iranians apparently aswell.

xmas is great for some things though... namely cos we're cooking a Goose this year

[seckle]

im half jew half muslim by blood... if anyone has the right to poke fun i feel i do.

wow. what do you do during eid/ramadan/hannukah? just curious, if you don't want to explain, totally understandable.

never really celebrated any of them, used to do the jewish ones when i was a kid cos my mum was into it, but the older we've got the more distant we've become from both sides of the family really so religious celebrations are kind of a non-event! we do persian new year to some extent (my dad is from Iran) and depending how my parents are feeling we sometimes have no pork in the house but i usually just go out and buy bacon when i want it anyway!

we buy each other xmas presents and have xmas dinner etc. but its more of a novelty thing than a serious 'Right... we're gona fucking celebrate christmas!' kind of thing

its an interesting mix, but its a lot more common than i ever thought it was, especially with Iranians apparently aswell.

xmas is great for some things though... namely cos we're cooking a Goose this year

now thats the pragmatic solution for sure! global families always fascinate me. my family is very roman catholic traditional, so i like hearing about families that can reconcile all the intricate issues.

[noam]

social scavenging is the way forward

[christophera]

there's no poor jedi