Chords in relation to scale?

[therzbm]

ok so im learning about music theory and understand scales and how they are worked out etc but im trying to get my head round chords and i understand how to form chords but i just dont get how chords and scale are used together so the whole thing stays in key? i keep reading up on chords and scale but i just dont seem to get it, im a technical person rather than musical, so could someone explain how chords and scale relate/are used together. say im writing something in D minor, the notes are D E F G A Bb C right, do you use the notes in the scale to work out any chords like normal or am i just missing something and need to go back to reading up on scales and shit? i understand scales and how they are formed, and chords and how they are formed, but i havent the foggiest when combining the two

[Mossmade]

For example: The Key of C, we'll go with this as they are no sharps or flats.



C, D, E, F, G, A, B, are the notes, also read up on chord construction

To make a major chord, there is the root, 3rd, and 5th,

So the C, E, G are them notes, for the minor chords drop the 3rd by one semi-tone.

Just play a group of notes from a scale, thats what I do. Something alright kinda happens.

[decklyn]

Look at the relationship.
1 4 5 is the most popular root movement
but note that keys like d minor are close to a minor and c major so you can play medolies in that key over top of those in a minor. Try playing something in a minor that talks to something in d minor where you do or don't touch b flat

[decklyn]

the circle of fifths shows the "closeness" of these relationships (see my blog in sig - article on harmonic mixing)

[decklyn]

also a minor is the 5th in relation to d minor so it's a "pleasing transition"
there isn't really any way to explain in words. you just need to experiment to see.

[RmoniK]

I'll make a small chord introduction post in here tonight. Keep in mind that it will be really small compared to the possibilities; as said above, experiment, if it sounds right, it probably is.

[RmoniK]

Ok, since i have some time left, i decided to do it now. Keep in mind that my native language is not English (which you have probably noticed) and i learned everything myself in Dutch. But i'll give i my best shot.

So, i will limit myself to major and minor scales. These scales consist of 7 different notes. Let's take C major for an example. Consists of:
C D E F G A B
Respecting the order, we will give Roman numbers to those notes, so we can apply it to every scale.
I II III IV V VI VII
These numbers will be used to refer to the chords rather than the notes. For example, a IV chord in C major is: F A C.
It's obvious that the I of a scale is the most important. We (i, since i'm not sure i'm using the proper terms here) will call this one the tonica. From now on, i will refer to this as T. The other two important chords are the IV, which we call a subdominant chord (SD) and the V, which we call a dominant chord (D). Now, the other chords are all divided in these groups too, here's a little scheme:

T S D
I IV V
VI II VII
III __ III

Now, this scheme is very important. In classical music, you can only go right or under when you're writing chord sequences. In pop music it's more free, but still, there are some things you can use:
- a T chord is the most important one, almost all music finishes with the I, and all the rest with a III or a VI. (that makes it a bit more interesting)
- a D chord is called dominant, because it will, together with the T, define the scale to the listener. This is very important, popular music is popular because it is a little bit predictive, you always have a little idea about the chord that is coming next. Well, when you use a D chord (especially V), you're almost certain that a T chord (mostly I) will follow on it. This is normally how a song ends, but it's used in the middle of the song a lot too. We call scale determinating scales "cadenses" (i think).
- a SD chord is subdominant, because it is mostly followed by a D chord (or another SD chord). When a T chord is followed by a SD, that also gives it a strong feeling that it's progressing, unlike when it stays in the same cathegory.

There's actually really much more to it, but i hope this can help already, and i'm really tired, so i'll stop here for now.

Just one more thing, in dubstep, there are a lot of half tones used, and diminished chords (with one and a half tone between all the notes). Also the blues scale is used a lot:
for C for instance:
C Eb F Gb G Bb C

[daft cunt]

Have a look at this thread, it might help

[bassinine]

some of the best chord progressions i've made have been by combining 3-5 notes from the key of your song into chords. 1-3-5, or 1-flatted 3rd-5, or 1-5 make most of your basic chords and power chords. you can then start to add variation from here.

so if you have a whole bar of 1-3-5 chord, halfway through change the 3 to a 2,4,6. so 1-3-5 (half bar)-> 1-4-5 (half bar), then progress to a different root chord. seriously though, playing around with chords and finding a progression that isn't cliche (like I-IV-V) will really make your tracks stand out.

this is pretty basic information, so i'm sorry if it's not what you're looking for. but really, just start combining notes from the key of your song and see what happens.

[decklyn]

I wrote a new article at http://www.decklyn.com that explains how you can use different scales than the root to write leads etc. It again uses the circle of fifths to help us visualize related scales. See http://www.decklyn.com
It has song examples of a lead line being moved to/from the fourth as well which might help.

[samkablaam]

T S D
I IV V
VI II VII
III __ III

Now, this scheme is very important. In classical music, you can only go right or under when you're writing chord sequences.

eh?

[arktrix45hz]

For example: The Key of C, we'll go with this as they are no sharps or flats.



C, D, E, F, G, A, B, are the notes, also read up on chord construction

To make a major chord, there is the root, 3rd, and 5th,

So the C, E, G are them notes, for the minor chords drop the 3rd by one semi-tone.

Just play a group of notes from a scale, thats what I do. Something alright kinda happens.

As stupid as this sounds, you've just put everything into focus that I've been trying to work out on my own for two years.

Thank you!

[karmacazee]

This chart should help. It's a basic tritone (three note) chord chart showing all the chords in each major and minor key from note I to VII. Should be enough chords to get you going, heh.



To help you understand it, just try it on your keyboard in the key of C.
Start on chord I, C major, which is C E G.
Place all five fingers on the first 5 notes of c major(the white keys!).
Now press down fingers 1,3 and 5. (1 being your thumb and 5 being your pinkie)
Notice the shape you're making when you play that on the keyboard, how you just skip a note in the scale as you add each note in the chord.
Now just play that same shape all the way up the white keys to hear all the basic tritone chords in the key of C major, and listen to the tonality of each one. Some are minor, some are major and one - the VII - is a dimninished chord.
To be able to transpose that pattern you need to learn the circle of 5ths, as it tells you how many sharps and flats are in a given key, and also where they are in relation to notes I to VII.




Bear in mind that essentially, chords are just two or more notes played together, so the possibilities within any scale for chord construction are quite huge (can't figure out the maths), especially when you start modulating, and adding extra notes such as 7ths, 9ths, 11's and 13ths.

Hope that helps to get you started though.

[therzbm]

cheers people, this has cleared it up, i think the main problem was in my head, i was getting confused about constructing chords. any tips on using chords and chord progressions? i know there are certain progressions that sound good but are obviously over used, is it just a case of play around until you find something good? and is it a good idea to use chords for main melodies or just leave them for pads and more sustained stuff? i always find my melodies can be a bit thin but trying to use chords i always seem to over complicate it

[RmoniK]

loads of tips, but it's too complicated to write here. Find a music theory course : )

[Debaser1]

All very well answered I must say guys! I knew there was a place for theory in dubstep somewhere

[MexicanKangaroo]

T S D
I IV V
VI II VII
III __ III

Now, this scheme is very important. In classical music, you can only go right or under when you're writing chord sequences. In pop music it's more free, but still, there are some things you can use:
- a T chord is the most important one, almost all music finishes with the I, and all the rest with a III or a VI. (that makes it a bit more interesting)
- a D chord is called dominant, because it will, together with the T, define the scale to the listener. This is very important, popular music is popular because it is a little bit predictive, you always have a little idea about the chord that is coming next. Well, when you use a D chord (especially V), you're almost certain that a T chord (mostly I) will follow on it. This is normally how a song ends, but it's used in the middle of the song a lot too. We call scale determinating scales "cadenses" (i think).
- a SD chord is subdominant, because it is mostly followed by a D chord (or another SD chord). When a T chord is followed by a SD, that also gives it a strong feeling that it's progressing, unlike when it stays in the same cathegory.

Haha, I was wondering when some serious theory was going to come up, most of these scales was bringing back the good ol' days of primary school piano lessons.... I wouldn't mind if you elaborated a bit more, seems like you have a decent amount of knowledge on this topic. I not exactly understanding the chart, what does the underscore at in the centre, bottom row.

Anyways, to answer the topic... there's not really any definite 'structure' or process with chords unless you want to make a song that sounds like pop or like another song. Chords are really a combination of 3-4 notes of the key you're in (with the odd accidentals, or black key)... for example C. there's an infinite amount of chords that can be made, it's the chord progression that makes it musical. I can't really tell you what to do so the chord progression sounds right... but one way I find that works a lot is if you start with a basic minor chord... such as C E-flat G, and you change the chord by moving one note to another note in the same scale (generally). So you could move the G in the previous chord to an A-flat, which is part of the C minor scale. And you repeat the process, and eventually you'll find a nice set of chords. Just make sure you stay in the key

[therzbm]

T S D
I IV V
VI II VII
III __ III

Now, this scheme is very important. In classical music, you can only go right or under when you're writing chord sequences. In pop music it's more free, but still, there are some things you can use:
- a T chord is the most important one, almost all music finishes with the I, and all the rest with a III or a VI. (that makes it a bit more interesting)
- a D chord is called dominant, because it will, together with the T, define the scale to the listener. This is very important, popular music is popular because it is a little bit predictive, you always have a little idea about the chord that is coming next. Well, when you use a D chord (especially V), you're almost certain that a T chord (mostly I) will follow on it. This is normally how a song ends, but it's used in the middle of the song a lot too. We call scale determinating scales "cadenses" (i think).
- a SD chord is subdominant, because it is mostly followed by a D chord (or another SD chord). When a T chord is followed by a SD, that also gives it a strong feeling that it's progressing, unlike when it stays in the same cathegory.

Haha, I was wondering when some serious theory was going to come up, most of these scales was bringing back the good ol' days of primary school piano lessons.... I wouldn't mind if you elaborated a bit more, seems like you have a decent amount of knowledge on this topic. I not exactly understanding the chart, what does the underscore at in the centre, bottom row.

Anyways, to answer the topic... there's not really any definite 'structure' or process with chords unless you want to make a song that sounds like pop or like another song. Chords are really a combination of 3-4 notes of the key you're in (with the odd accidentals, or black key)... for example C. there's an infinite amount of chords that can be made, it's the chord progression that makes it musical. I can't really tell you what to do so the chord progression sounds right... but one way I find that works a lot is if you start with a basic minor chord... such as C E-flat G, and you change the chord by moving one note to another note in the same scale (generally). So you could move the G in the previous chord to an A-flat, which is part of the C minor scale. And you repeat the process, and eventually you'll find a nice set of chords. Just make sure you stay in the key

as stupid as it sounds i never thought of it that way, i always tried to change the chord completely rather than just change one note in the chord and sustain the other two, assuming it would result in a more interesting progression. its amazing how as much as you can look up on theory and production, and learn and work out for yourself, there will still be millions of little tricks and tips that seem obvious when you get shown or told about them, but you just never thought of it yourself lol guess that is the joy of music, you will forever be learning and thinking up new shit (unless you make brostep)

[bassinine]

regarding the op's question about tips for writing chord progressions: for me, a good way to start out is by writing a simple riff using a scale, for example the pentatonic minor (basically the most used scale of all time). don't worry about writing chords, just write a melody using single notes. after you have this sounding somewhat the way you like, start to add notes and turn the individual notes into chords. you really can try using any of the notes in key of your song. to be honest, not knowing too much about theory will allow you to write progressions that bend the rules from time to time (theory is more of an explanation of how music works, not a firm rule as to how it should work) - and again, how it sounds is all that matter.

oh, and use the same chords from different octaves, don't restrict yourself to playing generally in one area. think about guitars, and how many octaves are being played at once on any chord.

[RmoniK]

T S D
I IV V
VI II VII
III __ III

Now, this scheme is very important. In classical music, you can only go right or under when you're writing chord sequences. In pop music it's more free, but still, there are some things you can use:
- a T chord is the most important one, almost all music finishes with the I, and all the rest with a III or a VI. (that makes it a bit more interesting)
- a D chord is called dominant, because it will, together with the T, define the scale to the listener. This is very important, popular music is popular because it is a little bit predictive, you always have a little idea about the chord that is coming next. Well, when you use a D chord (especially V), you're almost certain that a T chord (mostly I) will follow on it. This is normally how a song ends, but it's used in the middle of the song a lot too. We call scale determinating scales "cadenses" (i think).
- a SD chord is subdominant, because it is mostly followed by a D chord (or another SD chord). When a T chord is followed by a SD, that also gives it a strong feeling that it's progressing, unlike when it stays in the same cathegory.

Haha, I was wondering when some serious theory was going to come up, most of these scales was bringing back the good ol' days of primary school piano lessons.... I wouldn't mind if you elaborated a bit more, seems like you have a decent amount of knowledge on this topic. I not exactly understanding the chart, what does the underscore at in the centre, bottom row.

Anyways, to answer the topic... there's not really any definite 'structure' or process with chords unless you want to make a song that sounds like pop or like another song. Chords are really a combination of 3-4 notes of the key you're in (with the odd accidentals, or black key)... for example C. there's an infinite amount of chords that can be made, it's the chord progression that makes it musical. I can't really tell you what to do so the chord progression sounds right... but one way I find that works a lot is if you start with a basic minor chord... such as C E-flat G, and you change the chord by moving one note to another note in the same scale (generally). So you could move the G in the previous chord to an A-flat, which is part of the C minor scale. And you repeat the process, and eventually you'll find a nice set of chords. Just make sure you stay in the key

The underscores are just because i couldn't get the other III in the third column otherwise. I can only use one space.