gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[Mortal]

yeahh, im not ready for limiters compressers yet...never use them because id be too tempted to just whack on a preset and hope everythings okay, haa

[flatfaced]

i've just made the whole gain structure trip with main guide leader macc...
cheers man, really easyunderstandable writin and all others who helped so much,,,

somethin got not so clear for me and that is the thing about resampling,,,i read a few sentences about it tru the thread but is not exactly what am searchin for..

* Say create new project and start with the drums for example...i dont know what will exactly be my other elements in the mix so its only the beat - am layerin 2 kicks, 3 snares etc(i hope there is a phase cancellation threads round the forum too ),,,now since my PC is the last of its kind here I bounce all the layered elements into separated individual samples - 1 kick, 1 snare..you said to make up the levels at the earliest point of the source...so should i record my samples at lower volume (-8,-9,-10 doesnt matter) for usin in my mix( i dont know where theyll sit afterall) or maybe there is no need to leave such headroom before i even start the mix...you said also in sample cds the files are mostly normalised or near the 0 - so shouldnt i lead that also and record my samples near the 0 ( i suppose it is not necessary to leave headroom of the main output when am preparing my samples before the actual file that will work on ) and then turn them down in the main mix by the gain...

am askin cuz i dont want my samples to be roughly minused before they found their places in the mix and am scared of loosing resolution before even think about my new track ...

by sayin that you have to keep the perceived level no matter what plugin you use, you answered the question how should i know what amount of headroom do i have to leave for future processing before record them into one file - thank you ,,,

* In YouTube they say when you're layerin elements (3 kicks for ex) you should leave a really gentle compressor after them for stickin them out(i tried it and even without any perceivable reduction they sound more homogen and like one( it will be really hard to do the compressor's work by hand in that case ) )...i dont like when the volume cut is more than 3-5 dB but i dont know...what should you recommend...

and the last one so far:
* Why the Sub is often under the kicks - due to Fletcher-Munson it should be the loudest part in your mix...I guess cuz its long and hardtoabsorb waves and its power of makin the other part of the mix weak or maybe cuz its nearly constant dynamics but tell for real...

cheers.

[macc]

am askin cuz i dont want my samples to be roughly minused before they found their places in the mix and am scared of loosing resolution before even think about my new track ...

It's this old-fashioned and completely out of date fear that drives the whole problem of people pushing things up into the red.

If you are exporting at 24-bit then you have NOTHING to worry about by going quieter. Don't be scared to turn stuff down!

* In YouTube they say when you're layerin elements (3 kicks for ex) you should leave a really gentle compressor after them for stickin them out(i tried it and even without any perceivable reduction they sound more homogen and like one( it will be really hard to do the compressor's work by hand in that case ) )...i dont like when the volume cut is more than 3-5 dB but i dont know...what should you recommend...

This isn't really a part of this thread, and I don't know what youtube says - but do what sounds best. It's your tune, not youtube's

* Why the Sub is often under the kicks - due to Fletcher-Munson it should be the loudest part in your mix...I guess cuz its long and hardtoabsorb waves and its power of makin the other part of the mix weak or maybe cuz its nearly constant dynamics but tell for real...

I have no idea what you are asking I'm afraid

You can put the sub wherever you like - below, above, next to the kick... whatever!

[flatfaced]

yeah but when am resamplin 3-4 times for example (maybe reese or drums) and everytime i record it at low level and then bring it back in the mix and say i need to loud it up a bit, wouldnt it sound overheadroomed

with "under" i meant peakin lower in the volume structure
the graphic shows that the sub is hardest to percieve so why it sits(often) under the drums in the structure...?

[macc]

yeah but when am resamplin 3-4 times for example (maybe reese or drums) and everytime i record it at low level and then bring it back in the mix and say i need to loud it up a bit, wouldnt it sound overheadroomed

Seriously, do I need to answer this? Use your common sense mate. You only need to turn it down once!

Ideally it should be as early as possible in the sample's life, though of course sometimes you might want to drive it hard through some distortion or something, after which you turn it down again. Use yer loaf!

with "under" i meant peakin lower in the volume structure
the graphic shows that the sub is hardest to percieve so why it sits(often) under the drums in the structure...?

I don't know what graphic you're talking about but in most analysers I have seen, a normal, well-mixed tune has the sub sitting above everything else. So once more, I have no idea what you are talking about!

[flatfaced]

my post deleted itself so ill try again,,,

i started with haha
Fletcher Munson's graphic...But you answered me already...the drums are peakin higher cuz of its transients so thats why they're 2, 3 db above the sub which is constant...thats why i messed it up...

though of course sometimes you might want to drive it hard through some distortion or something, after which you turn it down again

so is there a big difference when you put distortion after the sample and record it near 0 (-1,-2 db) and then reduce the sample's gain in the mix and when you turn down the distortion's gain so the signal after the distortion peakin again at -8, -10 for ex and then record...

Sorry for the messed up questions,

[macc]

so is there a big difference when you put distortion after the sample and record it near 0 (-1,-2 db) and then reduce the sample's gain in the mix and when you turn down the distortion's gain so the signal after the distortion peakin again at -8, -10 for ex and then record...

In terms of sound there shouldn't be any appreciable difference. But there's a possible impact on subsequent processing and also on workflow. Turning down the audio as it comes out of the distortion allows you to hear the distortion itself without any extra volume, and also means you don't have to messabout with any other knobs later as you have already done it.

[flatfaced]

thanks for the answers and for your unstretchable nerves

[macc]

No probs man!

Though I did smash 4 laptops to pieces in the course of our discussion

[flatfaced]

so we should pay now

tell us what are your other expences round that thread
/tobacco, heavy drinks for ez readin the same questions over and over so on../

[macc]

Lingering short term memory loss from my smoking days means that isn't a problem

[flatfaced]

at least you expand our head's room alot

all stop it cuz it gets a little oily

[juan]

ill get my mix sounding nice at a lower volume but when i bring the volume up with a brickwall for instance it wont allow the track to peak but it will be red lining at the set threshold of the limiter. does this cause a distored bounce??



soundcloud.com/ralphsone

[FRasch]

-edit:
nvm. figured it out

[Genevieve]

Soooo.

I'm using the snares from the Action Break that I neatly cut out of the break.

I get rid of the sub, but I lose like 3 db of headroom. Whether I use an EQ or filter, whatever I do, I lose headroom.

Help? -.-

[nowaysj]

G, I'm just jumping in this thread after maybe a year or so, do don't know what has been transpiring. It is my understanding that a linear phase eq will help with your problem (giving you another problem, that if you are unaware of, I'd rather not tell you about )

[Genevieve]

G, I'm just jumping in this thread after maybe a year or so, do don't know what has been transpiring. It is my understanding that a linear phase eq will help with your problem (giving you another problem, that if you are unaware of, I'd rather not tell you about )

Sneaky! <.<

But thank you for your help! I'll look into it right away.

[macc]

What sort of eq/filter are you using to do that? As in, what sort of shape? Very very sharp by any chance?

[Genevieve]

What sort of eq/filter are you using to do that? As in, what sort of shape? Very very sharp by any chance?

The EQ in Renoise (its native EQ) has to be sharp for me to get rid of anything. -.-

On the filter, it's a 24 dB 4 pole filter. Even when I use the Moog style filter, it still does that.

[macc]

Is it a 24dB/oct but with slope/resonance controls?

In any case, try a linear phase filter as suggested. But whatever you use, try to keep it as shallow as possible. Very sharp filters often = problems