Too much low end? Not enough mid?

ts engage · Post by **ts engage** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:21 pm

Ive been working on just different sounds in general for my bass (working in massive) . Osc 1 is a saw wav osc2 is "electric" with the first knob turned about half way, osc3 is another saw but an octave up to make the bass thicker and so it has more range to it. (i like the way its sounding with those waves). BUT the problem is, when you listen to the sample ive uploaded below of just one of the things im working on, it seems to me that the bass is too muffled...it just seems like it has no mid/thickness to it. Ive eq'd it at 160hz and ive added like a few extra dbs to the high end of the bass but it still doesnt get that thickness that im looking for. And the sine (which is one a seperate track) cuts off at about 80. The kick begins at 80 but i just cant figure out what to do .

Clip is below, any help at all would be great, cheers guys.

Soundcloud

Crosby · Post by **Crosby** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:41 pm

Either add or change the osc's you have to a higher octave?

ts engage · Post by **ts engage** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:56 pm

I uploaded a picture of the settings for my main bass above. At the bottom you can see what range the notes are hitting in as well, surely if i go higher it will just be too high? I tried it and it just doesnt sit in as a low enough bass anymore. :/

on the left as well is my eq for the bass

nowaysj · Post by **nowaysj** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:58 am

Think about those drums.

hifi · Post by **hifi** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:05 am

lower every oscillator an octave? bring up the high shelf in the EQ you have turned on there if that doesn't work you can try splitting the frequencies since your using Logic like me you can just route your bassline to 3 busses, name them low, mid, hi, as those will correspond to the region of frequencies of your sound. stick a multiband compressor on each bus (you can use logic's stock plug called "Multipressor" which can be found under the Dynamics section) then solo each region (low,mid, hi) on each compressor but make sure each is in its region like ex: low 20hz - 150hz, mid 150hz and above to about 1 or 2 kHz,.. yea hopefully that will help you if I can't surely someone else will

jrisreal · Post by **jrisreal** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:26 am

i think the bass should be an octive lower, but with eq on the mid and high frequencies to bring them out and give more volume. On your filter, add some resonance (just a little) and it should make the bass have more balance. also try resampling your current sound and bringing it back in to layer with other basses (some with more mids and some with more highs) so you get a nice, thick bassline...(why is it even called a bassline, usually its not even bass ... ???

)

psychedelicatessen · Post by **psychedelicatessen** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:50 am

jrisreal wrote:i think the bass should be an octive lower, but with eq on the mid and high frequencies to bring them out and give more volume. On your filter, add some resonance (just a little) and it should make the bass have more balance. also try resampling your current sound and bringing it back in to layer with other basses (some with more mids and some with more highs) so you get a nice, thick bassline...(why is it even called a bassline, usually its not even bass ... ??? )

You've got the right idea imho

DJ Crackle · Post by **DJ Crackle** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:13 am

jrisreal wrote:(why is it even called a bassline, usually its not even bass ... ??? )

Dubstep is silly.

Ldizzy · Post by **Ldizzy** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:41 am

it should be bass...

vertx · Post by **vertx** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:18 pm

Imho you have eq'd waaaay to hard on that low end of the bass, you say your bass lacks thickness and that its not sitting low enough but you've cut all the bottom out of it???

I haven't listened to the clip but try cutting at a lower db per octave like 12db and lower down around 90hz to 130hz.

serox · Post by **serox** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:24 pm

Can hardly hear any sub in there. Sounds like a bog standard waveform with an EQ.

I hope you dont plan on leaving such a long loop in ur track btw.

serox · Post by **serox** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:26 pm

I know u did not ask but I would take a look at ur drums a bit. It all sounds quite messy to me, maybe reverb needs work on the hi hats? hard to tell without hearing it dry.

That snare is too long and big for the track, sounds wrong:p

ts engage · Post by **ts engage** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:58 pm

Hypefiend wrote:lower every oscillator an octave? bring up the high shelf in the EQ you have turned on there if that doesn't work you can try splitting the frequencies since your using Logic like me you can just route your bassline to 3 busses, name them low, mid, hi, as those will correspond to the region of frequencies of your sound. stick a multiband compressor on each bus (you can use logic's stock plug called "Multipressor" which can be found under the Dynamics section) then solo each region (low,mid, hi) on each compressor but make sure each is in its region like ex: low 20hz - 150hz, mid 150hz and above to about 1 or 2 kHz,.. yea hopefully that will help you if I can't surely someone else will

ahhh, right ill definitely try that out. Thanks. Just so i know though, why exactly am i splitting the frequencies? I still have a lot to learn about mastering and eq n all that so im just trying to get as much help as possible.

serox wrote:I know u did not ask but I would take a look at ur drums a bit. It all sounds quite messy to me, maybe reverb needs work on the hi hats? hard to tell without hearing it dry.

That snare is too long and big for the track, sounds wrong:p

okay, but what would i need to do to the drums? I dont know where to start! haha. When you say "reverb needs work on the hi hats, how do you mean? And i think i know what you mean about the snare...shall i chop it do you recon or just use a shorter snare?

serox wrote:Can hardly hear any sub in there. Sounds like a bog standard waveform with an EQ.

I hope you dont plan on leaving such a long loop in ur track btw.

There is sub? Ive got it at about -6db and its a simple sine on osc1 and a saw on osc2, both going through the lowpass 4 filter. Which runs off the eq at 80hz. And dont worry im not going to have that whole loop im just trying to learn about mastering and eq and stuff like that first.

serox · Post by **serox** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:04 pm

Well this is just down to personal taste but I would suggest a short snare and one that is more snappy.

I also don’t really EQ till right at the end and I think its good to learn to make things work together dry so when you do come to EQing you only need to do a little.

If you are asking why do you need to split frequencies then I would also suggest not bother. Find out what you need to do as you go alone and don’t just do what you read on the forum!

Try muting everything apart from the kick, snare bass and sub. Get those basic bits sitting well and then bring in the hi hats/percs but keeping them low will make ur bass sound bigger.

I would also suggest dont waste too much time on 'mastering' because its a whole new game and may confuse you. Get the noises down and get a groove going;)

DJ Crackle · Post by **DJ Crackle** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:05 pm

The term you're looking for is mixing, not mastering

But if you're bass sounds weak, I agree it's probably because of how much you've scooped out of the low end. Sure there may be a sub, but that's not going to make your main bass synth sound full if you're bitching it up by cutting the beef of the sound. I don't know, can't listen to the track right now, wish I could. But yeah, in mixing, you don't want to do anything unless you know it sounds good. There's really not anything in the mix stage that you want to do just because you think that's the way it's done. If your ears tell you otherwise, then listen to your ears.

ts engage · Post by **ts engage** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:44 pm

DJ Crackle wrote:The term you're looking for is mixing, not mastering
But if you're bass sounds weak, I agree it's probably because of how much you've scooped out of the low end. Sure there may be a sub, but that's not going to make your main bass synth sound full if you're bitching it up by cutting the beef of the sound. I don't know, can't listen to the track right now, wish I could. But yeah, in mixing, you don't want to do anything unless you know it sounds good. There's really not anything in the mix stage that you want to do just because you think that's the way it's done. If your ears tell you otherwise, then listen to your ears.

Yeah. See, thats what ive been doing but i think i end up changing things the completely wrong way. Like, if im listening back to it and thinking yeah theres too much low on the hi hats n that, or theres not enough low end on the bass, ill just go the wrong way about changing it and end up making it sound worse, haha. Thats why i try and follow a rough guide. Dont get me wrong im down for figuring it all out my self and finding the best way for me to mix it all, but it does help to have a small outline of what to be doing.

hifi · Post by **hifi** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:32 pm

ts engage wrote:
Hypefiend wrote:lower every oscillator an octave? bring up the high shelf in the EQ you have turned on there if that doesn't work you can try splitting the frequencies since your using Logic like me you can just route your bassline to 3 busses, name them low, mid, hi, as those will correspond to the region of frequencies of your sound. stick a multiband compressor on each bus (you can use logic's stock plug called "Multipressor" which can be found under the Dynamics section) then solo each region (low,mid, hi) on each compressor but make sure each is in its region like ex: low 20hz - 150hz, mid 150hz and above to about 1 or 2 kHz,.. yea hopefully that will help you if I can't surely someone else will
ahhh, right ill definitely try that out. Thanks. Just so i know though, why exactly am i splitting the frequencies? I still have a lot to learn about mastering and eq n all that so im just trying to get as much help as possible.

well if you do split the frequencies you will be able to modulate or use any effect processing to the low, mid, and higher frequencies seperately which you can then bring out the midrange of a bassline out more or add more high end to the sound. you can also EQ then seperately also if you do do that make sure to make the lower frequencies mono

nowaysj · Post by **nowaysj** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:18 am

If you want an outline, read the money shot thread. It's a big one, try little exercises as you go along.

JBE · Post by **JBE** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:46 am

It's a good idea to at least split your lows from your mids and highs. If you use a chorus or any kind of stereo imaging on your bass it can severely cripple your lows. I usually do this, then set my sub frequency channel to mono so the sub will always sit in the middle.

thedefinition · Post by **thedefinition** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:15 am

Hypefiend wrote:lower every oscillator an octave?

This right here alone should get you closer to the sound you're looking for. A classic synthesizer newbie mistake is to treat different synths like all the others in your collection. A lot of people don't realize that some of the great characteristics of Massive's sound comes from how the oscillators work so well together. When you drop the other oscs an octave or two below normal, you don't get the usual fizz, sizzle, and buckling at the knees like most other soft synths . Besides, since you're cutting the sub off, you don't have to worry about what goes on below your cutoff point.

Since your main focus are the bass frequencies you should work your way up from there. Find something you like and then make it listenable to that others will enjoy it.

My advice, start low...then get high. and make sure it's good shit too, not that fake ass mid/rags ish!

Too much low end? Not enough mid?

Too much low end? Not enough mid?

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