stereo tips

[nospin]

whenever i start a track its sounds okayish through my monitors, when i put headphones on and everything is dead center and sounds funky.
then i try applying the various stereo techniques i've read up on, (reverbs, delays, panning, doubleing/detuning synths and seperating them) and shit starts to become lopsided really quickly.
i then either put it all center, and just work on the song from there again, or give up. either isnt good.

what are some good tips and advice for this? maybe someone in the know could pump out some tuturials? just a handful of basics, and genuinely understanding them would help me out a lot

thanks

[decklyn]

This is something that I've been working on and thinking about lately, specifically in my latest work - sun (see link in my sig).

"rules" as far as they go are pretty much non existent except I would say hard panning is generally avoided. I can start to give you an idea around what I think on the subject of working in stereo tho, and also quote a few other people on the subject while I'm at it.

First of all I'd like to mention that in Owinski's "Mixing Engineer's Handbook," the section on mixing is placed second, after arrangement, and before EQ, Effects, and dynamics. This certainly says something about his perspective on the subject, and I can honestly see why now.

Undoubtedly the most useful model that I've picked up in terms of mixing in stereo is the analogy of a picture or scene in the movie. Imagine you're looking out into a western scene (owinski's example). You've got your main character standing in the forefront of the screen, looking at us. Now imagine that some gunman is sneaking up behind him, just to set the premise of the scene. Now if you have that person sneaking up behing him in the same place in the scene (in the mix), then the viewer won't be able to tell that he's there, and they'll fight for space and attention, and the scene will be confusing and irrational. By moving the guy sneaking up off to the side a bit, suddenly that element has its own space again.

Now that is the main theory around panning, so that is our first two dimensions.

Now do we want that second element right beside the first? Probably not - we want the main focus to be on the actor (likely percussion and bass), and the second element to now strugge for attention, but be noticable and build tension. He'll be set back a bit in the image. Dimensions can be created with reverb or delay. (I would suggest using only one or the other to create space in a tune - use one to make the sound BIG use the other to create space - another tip I read somewhere which makes sense)

So we'll set back the creeping up guy by applying reverb. The louder the reverb in relation to dry signal, the farther "back" you're putting him in the mix/scene.

If your track has the essential elements in focus, then it should never really feel lop-sided. Also, be gentle with panning. Extreme panning is never really necessary. (that being said - there are no rules - never forget - that is the number one rule - "if you have to turn a knob around backwards it doesn't matter - just as long as it sounds good").

Some other great advice is to try panning in mono. That is - make your master mono during mix down and try panning elements around to make them gel. You'll hear as the phase changes and things sit different. This is GREAT - I first heard people doing this on this forum and then read about this method in several other production books - including the Mixing Engineer's Handbook.

I hope this helps. It will help you define what's important in the mix too - and maybe re-think arrangements.

Once again, check out the tune Sun in my sig and leave some critisism or comment - iether are welcome, and if you have any more questions definately ask.

[decklyn]

just a few more things - for some phase/detuning - try making these effects mono, and then applying your own space.

For kicks and bass, it's a common trick to VERY LIGHTLY pan the kick to one side and VERY LIGHTLY pan the pass to the other. This is extremely subtle, just to give a touch more definition.

ALso for reverb, always use sends - not only to save your cpu, but also to ensure that you're putting everything in one space! there are exceptions, but generally you'll only want a couple reverbs - maybe two instances of the a similar reverb, one with less early reflections to create the effect of having something even farther back

Try EQing reverb too. Darkening it up (cutting highs) will push it into the mix, but brightening it up can give some needed definition if it's muddy..

[gyto]

mate i found that really useful. thanks alot!!

[nospin]

yes decklyn definitely some good stuff for me to work with. i also have that book around somewhere, will pull it out again.
thanks

one question. is it common to have to re-approach eq after panning, or adding delays and verbs? i always find that i have to, just wondering. i remember reading somewhere once, that if you EQ in mono first, then pan out etc, you'll be at a better place, but i always EQ after i pan out anyway

[nospin]

oh and i'll check out that track tomorrow when i can turn the volume up

[ozeb]

decklyn rules.

your unabashed and ego-less offers of assistance are not going unnoticed - trust.

[decklyn]

yes decklyn definitely some good stuff for me to work with. i also have that book around somewhere, will pull it out again.
thanks

one question. is it common to have to re-approach eq after panning, or adding delays and verbs? i always find that i have to, just wondering. i remember reading somewhere once, that if you EQ in mono first, then pan out etc, you'll be at a better place, but i always EQ after i pan out anyway

I would say that makes alot of sense. EQing (particularly boosting) causes phasing (which we describe as coloration). So you would want the changes in phasing to happen BEFORE panning. I also, however, pan out and adjust EQ and effect as I go and not in any order. An engineer would be sitting with the final version of a track, and then doing a mixdown from scratch with all the pots centered and all the faders down, so our experience from software dance music producers is a bit different. I'd like to start doing more stereo mixdowns in mono to see what the effects are like on different things like eqing before and after panning. It's all very interesting conceptually for sure! great question btw. While I'm not too sure myself, hopefully there is some logic in the response.

[jahtao]

Phasing caused by eq is a product of the eq's algorythm, and is restricted to the frequency area and instrument being eq'd. Phasing that changes with panning is phasing between different instruments - this is proper phasing, the other is more 'phasey' (and part of an eq's individual character / colouration).

In my mind, putting two similar but different sounds in the same place in the stereo image may give you problems but those problems are more likely to be of the 'masking' variety - so they wont sound wierd and wrong and phasey, it will just sound like two sounds getting in each other's faces... or pleasingly blending together, depending on your attitude.

Panning is great, get into it, def use it for all its worth, i fucking love it, but it can't stop two instruments that are out of phase with each other in your mix giving you problems because the phase cancellation will happen in the room, in your ears, and when it is summed to mono on the radio, tv, in the club, on a phone.

If in doubt make something that sounds wierd and crap and different and wrong

[thehovsep]

this forum is the best.
i love this community.
i love all of you.

the virus spreads.