Serious time, folks.

[jrisreal]

we need more active moderators

as im sure everybody knows, I'm fairly active

[Huts]

I feel like a time restriction on when you can post would be a bit unfriendly, but it makes the most sense to me. I've only been browsing DSF for about 2 months now, but being the noob that I am, I feel like there is nothing valuable I can contribute to these intelligent or more interesting threads everyone so desperately wants to see. All of these dumb threads that pop up can easily be answered if people just took the time to read the bible/stickies/Q&A threads. Putting a time restraint would either a) force people to read or b) turn them away, which if they can't be bothered to read and learn anything to begin with, no one is missing out.

A lot of the valuable information I've picked up in random threads here and there (not including stickes/bible) has come from the same handful of veterans. There was some great stuff going on in the "dungeon sound" thread about mock z-plane filter trickery, sound design stuff, etc. I feel like it's a guessing game for noobs as to what the right question is to get people talking. I'd gain more from reading discussions from people that actually know wtf they're talking about than sifting through 50 pages of people shitting on one another because they want to know how to make a "datsik bassline".

[AllNightDayDream]

Loads of great ideas here to take into serious consideration. I agree with Kaiori that there really isn't anything wrong with this section other than an influx of mundane questions. The forum seems to be drifting towards a strange place because, as someone already said, people here have already compiled resources so well into the bible and the stickies that the use for in-depth discussion is waning and becoming unnecessary.

I especially like the idea of maybe having people vote on a track they all feel has certain neat production qualities and having a couple dudes break it down and try to re-create it. I'm down to contribute to something like that.

[wub]

There was some great stuff going on in the "dungeon sound" thread about mock z-plane filter trickery, sound design stuff, etc.

I especially like the idea of maybe having people vote on a track they all feel has certain neat production qualities and having a couple dudes break it down and try to re-create it. I'm down to contribute to something like that.

I think the Dungeon Sound thread is one of the best we've had on here recently, and more sound design discussions can only be a good thing.

[pete_bubonic]

You know what is serious. My new moderator rank.


Serious.

what is "Skeng Man" supposed to be as far as ranking goes

Means I'm the best.

no offence legendary but ever since youve became a mod things have gotten alot gayer.

constantly deleting questionable threads (things that could be left up, arent repeated questions, but you just find some reason that it shouldn't be here..)

there have been numerous times i can think of when i opened up a thread that was prepared to answer or try to help the person and then see LOCKED READ STICKIES NOOB LOLOLOLOL.

before you were a mod very rarely would i see locked threads.. but during that first period you became mod you just went ape shit with the ban hammer... power hungry? starved for affection? i dno. either way it was wack and im glad youve cooled off a bit and hopefully will continue to do so.

You sound like someone who's thread got locked. I've been using this forum since it started and Ledge has done nothing but improve it for everyone.

To all the people that say the forum is fine, and stop hating on the brostep, stop being so negative. You don't even know. This place used to be far more positive, people would help out, people would stick around, people would have interesting, evolving conversations, people would be respectful of other people. Don't trip, it wasn't all unicorns and rainbows, but it was different and it was better. That is not how it is now. That's why I say it is beyond saving, because as far as I'm concerned it's already dead (and as far as a lot of the former quality posters are concerned). This forum has been overrun by little brosteppers too scared to call what they do their own thing, so they got to try and be a part of dubstep. Grow a sack and do your own thing, just do it on http://www.brostepforum.com.

I'm going to put this as politely as my little brain can manage:
Leave then. Find a different forum with 20 users on, all with a common ground and post there.

The only thing that changed is number of people who post here as Dubstep got more and more popular. Sure there's people who seem to want everything handed to them on a plate, but how hard is it for one of the regulars to post a link to the big Skrillex/Datsik thread that month and then let the thread die? Don't need to be a mod to do that, don't need it to be locked, certainly don't need to stop that users from posting in the first place.

I find it depressing that users of this forum are so quick to jump to the conclusion that it's stricter moderation or post restriction needed or indeed, completely beyond saving as nowaysj so deftly point out. The forum is a community first and foremost, that means regardless of what draconian measures that will no doubt be brought in as a result of this thread, it's the actions of the members that decide how the forum appears and runs. If the general consensus is to be a snub nosed prick to those at the bottom of the learning curve, then that's how the whole forum will look.

I think a re organisation of the big stickies and bibles is definitely a step in the right direction. no it won't stop the base threads but it will make it hella easier for regulars to point these threads out to users.

I reckon a karma/rep/neg system is probably going to prove useful as instead of coming across as utter dicks and cussin noobs down, a simple link and a neg to highlight they should be checking the stickies suffices.

I also think a thread rating system would work well in here and the dubs section. Good useful threads get 5 stars etc.

Yeah all these suggestions are open to abuse, but I think because of the number of people here now, the systems will average out.

[Kenjifujima]

I think the limit shouldn't be in the amount of time

[nowaysj]

Pete, I'm gonna get all quoty with you.

I'm going to put this as politely as my little brain can manage:
Leave then. Find a different forum with 20 users on, all with a common ground and post there.

I am leaving. I haven't found a place to go, so you will find me (mal)lingering. If and when I find a place more fruitful, I'm outy, and I will encourage everyone here who is interesting and helpful to join me. I'm not looking for a forum with 20 users all with common ground. This is just plainly insulting as it completely mischaracterizes my complaints with the trend here on dsf.

The only thing that changed is number of people who post here as Dubstep got more and more popular.

Disagree with this. I believe the type of music that is drawing people here is drawing a certain type of person here, and those are people I don't enjoy being around. There has been a pretty profound character shift of general dsfp users. And I've personally seen many talented, insightful people simply leave because of the change in dsfp.

Sure there's people who seem to want everything handed to them on a plate, but how hard is it for one of the regulars to post a link to the big Skrillex/Datsik thread that month and then let the thread die? Don't need to be a mod to do that, don't need it to be locked, certainly don't need to stop that users from posting in the first place.

There have been a number of Skrillex how to threads on the first page lately. No amount of stickying this is how to make skrillex is going to stop that, or posting in threads to the skrillex how to thread. The thread is already stickied, there are four other threads that say how to make skrillex, and yet this new crop of user still feels it is necessary to start another thread asking how to make a skrillex bass. Saying post a link in the thread and let it drop sounds a little like we all should just be eating cake.

If the general consensus is to be a snub nosed prick to those at the bottom of the learning curve, then that's how the whole forum will look.

This is, again, a gross mischaracterization of my and other people's complaints. This actually REALLY pisses me off. I spend a lot of time here helping production newbies out. Way more time than I've seen you, Pete, or many of the other old school regulars helping out. I don't want to paint myself as some kind of hero or saint, or some other ridiculous shit, but I'm here primarily to help people, and learn a little along the way. I'm a straight production dork, I just like talking about the technology and art of production. I post in many threads that have no responses whatsoever. Or in threads that have been asked and answered 10^10 times that are still, nonetheless filled with inaccurate or incomplete responses. I spend a lot of time in PM helping less knowledgeable people out, one on one.

The problem isn't necessarily that we want to be snub nosed pricks to those that know less, but we're tiered of rude, inconsiderate, moronic little shits that can't exercise simple manners in the way they conduct themselves here.

I say "necessarily" because as the amount of low level knowledge people begins to greatly exceed the amount of knowledgeable people, a tipping point is reached where the knowledgeable people simply leave. I don't feel like providing proof, beyond what has already happened, for this point, you can take this concept or leave it at dsfp's peril. A deep end of the swimming pool might avoid this brain drain type of situation.

In terms of the way dsfp "looks" the P is looking like a joke to a lot of people. Here, on other parts of dsf, and abroad. This hurts me a little, because I like the P, I've been part of the P, but the jokes are based in reality, a reality I'm not as willing as you to deny.

With all due respect.

[JFK]

Pete, I'm gonna get all quoty with you.

Each time I check this thread I get all ready to have a rant and then I read Noways posts and he nails it.

We have to face reality here guys. DSF has changed, it wont ever be the same as it was a few years ago, this is becuase Dubstep itself has changed. It used to be an older crowd, many who came from the ruins of DnB, and who were looking for something totally different. This forum users reflected that in their attitudes to each other, to the music, to the way they conducted themselves. That time has now passed, now we are overrun with kids wanting to learn how to make music that is so far removed from the sound that most of the older heads consider to be dubstep that its no wonder that there is animosity and a lack of interest in helping each other.

Dubstep is split down the middle. DSF reflects that. Either we change the way this forum works or it will die.

[nowaysj]

Good response, I'll type up something when I got time later today

Good! I'm tired of you UK people keeping me up all night!

Had to buy a G shock watch with local and London time on it for you people

[pete_bubonic]

tl:dr incoming---

Pete, I'm gonna get all quoty with you.

I'm going to put this as politely as my little brain can manage:
Leave then. Find a different forum with 20 users on, all with a common ground and post there.

I am leaving. I haven't found a place to go, so you will find me (mal)lingering. If and when I find a place more fruitful, I'm outy, and I will encourage everyone here who is interesting and helpful to join me. I'm not looking for a forum with 20 users all with common ground. This is just plainly insulting as it completely mischaracterizes my complaints with the trend here on dsf.

I'm exaggerating admittedly, but only to make a point. When I joined, there were few members, all with a common ground, a very similar sound to which we all applied ourselves. It made chatting easy with little friction. Now Dubstep is a huge monster of a genre, with chart topping successes internationally. The crowd has grown, the user base of the forum in correspondence. This has introduced a lot of people into a massive variety of sounds, different levels of skill and different etiquettes. Which does, from a reader's perspective, seem to be the root cause of your problems, hence my somewhat dismissive post.

The only thing that changed is number of people who post here as Dubstep got more and more popular.

Disagree with this. I believe the type of music that is drawing people here is drawing a certain type of person here, and those are people I don't enjoy being around. There has been a pretty profound character shift of general dsfp users. And I've personally seen many talented, insightful people simply leave because of the change in dsfp.

it's not drawing a 'certain' type of people is my point. It's drawing exactly the same people as The Grid on DOA did. Once a music is/becomes popular and an internet forum userbase grows, this inevitably happens.

Sure there's people who seem to want everything handed to them on a plate, but how hard is it for one of the regulars to post a link to the big Skrillex/Datsik thread that month and then let the thread die? Don't need to be a mod to do that, don't need it to be locked, certainly don't need to stop that users from posting in the first place.

There have been a number of Skrillex how to threads on the first page lately. No amount of stickying this is how to make skrillex is going to stop that, or posting in threads to the skrillex how to thread. The thread is already stickied, there are four other threads that say how to make skrillex, and yet this new crop of user still feels it is necessary to start another thread asking how to make a skrillex bass. Saying post a link in the thread and let it drop sounds a little like we all should just be eating cake.

What is your alternative? Nuke the forum and leave it as forsaken?

If the general consensus is to be a snub nosed prick to those at the bottom of the learning curve, then that's how the whole forum will look.

This is, again, a gross mischaracterization of my and other people's complaints. This actually REALLY pisses me off. I spend a lot of time here helping production newbies out. Way more time than I've seen you, Pete, or many of the other old school regulars helping out. I don't want to paint myself as some kind of hero or saint, or some other ridiculous shit, but I'm here primarily to help people, and learn a little along the way. I'm a straight production dork, I just like talking about the technology and art of production. I post in many threads that have no responses whatsoever. Or in threads that have been asked and answered 10^10 times that are still, nonetheless filled with inaccurate or incomplete responses. I spend a lot of time in PM helping less knowledgeable people out, one on one.

The problem isn't necessarily that we want to be snub nosed pricks to those that know less, but we're tiered of rude, inconsiderate, moronic little shits that can't exercise simple manners in the way they conduct themselves here.

Firstly, I have the utmost respect for the regular contributors such as yourself, it's what drew me to forums like this and The Grid in the first place, people like yourself are effectively who taught me the tips and tricks I employed to eventually gain releases and tour Europe. Make no mistake of the value I put on an informed regular contributor. However you are misconstruing my references to MANY MANY responses to beginner threads I have seen from various members (established and new) being utter pricks to these posters, as a direct reference to your own input. It isn't. Take it personally if you want, I'm really not fussed, but know it wasn't intended as a personal dig.

I don't post many responses myself for one key reason. Which many people on this forum forget and could do with keeping in mind, I (like them) am very much still learning and fear giving bad advice. So unlike yourself totalling 6000+ posts in 2/3 years (and no, I'm not speaking on the quality of your posts), I total 1500 odd in 5/6 years.

I say "necessarily" because as the amount of low level knowledge people begins to greatly exceed the amount of knowledgeable people, a tipping point is reached where the knowledgeable people simply leave. I don't feel like providing proof, beyond what has already happened, for this point, you can take this concept or leave it at dsfp's peril. A deep end of the swimming pool might avoid this brain drain type of situation.

Perhaps you're right in this respect, a more advanced forum may well have an effect. I propose another hypothesis though, perhaps the reason the more established knowledgeable users leave is because they got what they want from the forum? Perhaps, MAYBE, they had some of the traits these newbies who only want Skrillex patches, in that, they wanted something, they got it, stayed for the lulz and then left when things started happening for them and time was scarce? With this somewhat more depressing outlook then, what does any forum have to offer experienced producers. Noisia don't post on The Grid anymore. Perhaps making the forum more involving and less taxing/offensive to read is the only way to keep the audience captive. Fuck knows I wonder why I bother spending as much time as I do updating, editing and deleting reported posts having read some of the outright insulting shit people post here.

In terms of the way dsfp "looks" the P is looking like a joke to a lot of people. Here, on other parts of dsf, and abroad. This hurts me a little, because I like the P, I've been part of the P, but the jokes are based in reality, a reality I'm not as willing as you to deny.

If people think the forum is a joke, cool, don't read it, don't post on it, go back to reading whatever vice magazine or fact have deemed serious and cool this month. Dismiss all the great knowledge here, dismiss all the good characters and funny posts here, all the great mixes (currently bumping the back series of Solitude's ambient mixes) and actually banging tunes to be found in the dubs section. Don't go to any the events posted here, don't take part in the competitions and don't read any promotion. Don't take part in the battle royales and tune beefs. Ignore all of the producers Q&A sessions. I really don't care. Anyone who thinks all of these great things is a joke, then I highly doubt I'd like their input anyway.

There's no denial here, no delusions, no home town defence because I'm a mod (now skeng man - woi oi). The forum certainly needs more of a guiding hand to help more people and keep the content interesting and fun. But if people think all this combined knowledge and contribution is a joke... they know where the door is >>>

I'm happy and willing to waste my time trying to improve this place for the regulars and decent contributors, and hopefully some people here will get as much as I did out of The Grid.

With all due respect.

And to you sir.

[howiegroove]

Hey Leg, can you just ban multiple offenders?

[kaiori breathe]

If you're at a level where you have the experience and knowledge required to make interesting and informative threads and you fail to do so then you automatically veto the right to complain about the quality of the discussions taking place on the forum imo.

If everyone in this thread, who's complained about the quality of threads, were to make one interesting thread about a topic they had knowledge of within the realms of production then this 'problem' would be sorted.

Stop moaning at mods to implement solutions to 'problems' that you are a part of.

I put problems in quotation marks because I personally don't believe the problem exists, but I'm a minority view it seems.

[-[2]DAY_-]

we need more active moderators

as im sure everybody knows, I'm fairly active

They weren't referring to your sexual development, jr. Thank you, though.

[Augment]

we need more active moderators

as im sure everybody knows, I'm fairly active

They weren't referring to your sexual development, jr. Thank you, though.

[jrisreal]

we need more active moderators

as im sure everybody knows, I'm fairly active

They weren't referring to your sexual development, jr. Thank you, though.

NO NO NO NO NO

[jrisreal]

and @nowaysj man youve been one of the most helpful people for me on this forum. I don't want this place to go to waste and if all the helpful ppl like you leave, it will.

[deadly_habit]

so instead of the constant discussions on what to do to improve it how about someone with some power or clout takes some action (though call me a negative nancy i don't see a new advanced board or much change besides the stickies happening)
the problem is there's all this discussion on what should be done etc and no follow through
look at how much follow through was kept up on the dubs section, and enforcement of it's rules (hint it's still a clusterfuck)
the thing i always find weird is why are the dedicated moderators for boards, often ones who are touring musicians (which is why it made sense that dave stepped down)
there is just frankly not enough enforcement or a presence of the current mods to show, hey we enforce the rules up top, so you better read em and abide by em

[-[2]DAY_-]

i kind of think part of the issue with prod. is that we've nothing pressing to talk about anymore. besides newer members seeking answers to the same puzzles we once faced.. we haven't had a productive convo since the thread about reverb sends/inserts (imho).

compression 101 covered, layered bass covered, layered drums covered, traditional dub FX and tricks covered, sub covered, the occasional specific producer XYZ's bass looked into, music theory covered and largely disregarded.... good sample packs downloaded..

All great for the new user, but What is there to offer OG users? to share all their secrets and get nothing back? The only thing here for an OG user is a place to meet networks of people that you can add on soundcloud and have real critical discussions about your tunes, without the clusterfuck of Dubs and the stingy rules of the production forum regarding posting your tunes. Dubs moves too quickly, and here.... well i don't have questions about WIPs. Theyre finished tunes but i still want to share them and learn what i should be working harder on, how it translates on other systems, etc. maybe get some help and share what i know alike, but point being, you grow out of the stuff there is to gain on these threads. Then its just jokes and tune battles.

Still a cool place to go online, but the answer seems to be taking the more serious discussions elsewhere. That being said, I'm awful at soundcloud and i never login or reply to people who show love which is terrible, but im looking to start spending more time there and try to make some friends who are more serious about it.

[FSTZ]

I reckon a karma/rep/neg system is probably going to prove useful as instead of coming across as utter dicks and cussin noobs down, a simple link and a neg to highlight they should be checking the stickies suffices.

I also think a thread rating system would work well in here and the dubs section. Good useful threads get 5 stars etc.

This is a great idea imo

works well on another forum that I moderate

[NRHc]

Leg, I appear pessimistic, and to a large extent I am. But I think this thread can't help dsfp. I think dsfp is beyond help. Think we're looking at a new chapter of dsfp. This chapter is likely to be filled with inexperienced teenage producers sharing cobbled production half truths. Most of the experienced, talented, artistic producers have already left. This saddens me, honestly, because I've gained so much through dsfp. Not even joking that this place changed my life, and the way I work.

One potential solution is to have a two tiered forum, a shallow end, and a deep end (please don't mix metaphors here). It is clear that the google bot is sending every 15 yo producer with a cracked massive here. The board is over run with these people. If there was a separate area for more experienced producers, maybe, just maybe, dsf could retain some artistic/intellectual capital. Otherwise this board is going to be filled with myriad Chad the rapists, and no one of substance will remain.

I've argued against a two tiered dsfp several times over the years. But I've finally come around to the idea as a last ditch effort to keep something of value here on dsfp.

I've got nothing against the younger producers here, more power to them, and I vow to spend time in the shallow end fielding Fl Studio questions as well as general production questions, but I would really like to be able to carry on more serious conversations in peace.

Amen old timer.

QFT