DSF's Future

[kaiori breathe]

Two things, firstly, it's worrying that people seem to be taking this more seriously than the recent AV referendum. (Only Brits will know what I'm on about.)

Secondly;

It's octopuses.

42% turnout... So disappointing.

You have to admit octopi sounds so much better though.

[nowaysj]

I agree with most of that K there in italic (why was all that in italic?) dsfp is really cool for a lot of reasons. I don't see how any of that will change though if there is a subsection of dsfp that caters to more serious conversation of production and music. Dsfp is not going away (that I'm aware of ).

In fact, the people calling for one forum argue that stricter moding, banning, locking and deleting of unnecessary threads is the solution. What is better, a deepend where all the stuck up dick heads can go rehash their production chops while simultaneously in the shallowend Chad can scream incessantly that he is going to rape something if someone doesn't answer his question, the answer to which is directly adjacent to the thread he just started; as opposed to a one forum where no hijinx and hilarity are allowed amidst the production chatter. Honestly, I think I prefer the former.

K, you're so familiar with my post history, you know that I spend a lot of time goofing around and chatting breeze. I don't want to lose that. But really, I don't want to see a production forum where the first page is full of the same threads about skrillex bass, and have to listen to chad talking about his rape history in every thread.

[krispy]

I love this forum and I would do anything I can to see it continue in a positive direction.
Life has become different and busy lately for me with a new job leaving me little time for computers and music.
I contribute when I can and I hope others will do the same because it's what keeps this place alive.
As long as people keep asking intelligent questions related to dubstep production and music production in general then this forum is going the right way.
The problem is when people repeatedly ask the same silly stupid trollish questions over and over that ruin it.

If I could pick one serious way of improving this forum it would be to improve the search function so that the "DSF Google Search" is the default search engine. This way when you search for questions you actually might find what you are looking for. The current search engine finds things in a wierd way (by order of date posted I think?) and it isn't very effective in my opinion.

Anyways, I hope all the solid positive contributers stick around for a long time because this is the best place to go when I have questions to ask about music production.

[kaiori breathe]

I agree with most of that K there in italic (why was all that in italic?) dsfp is really cool for a lot of reasons. I don't see how any of that will change though if there is a subsection of dsfp that caters to more serious conversation of production and music. Dsfp is not going away (that I'm aware of ).

Italics are delightful

In fact, the people calling for one forum argue that stricter moding, banning, locking and deleting of unnecessary threads is the solution. What is better, a deepend where all the stuck up dick heads can go rehash their production chops while simultaneously in the shallowend Chad can scream incessantly that he is going to rape something if someone doesn't answer his question, the answer to which is directly adjacent to the thread he just started; as opposed to a one forum where no hijinx and hilarity are allowed amidst the production chatter. Honestly, I think I prefer the former.

K, you're so familiar with my post history, you know that I spend a lot of time goofing around and chatting breeze. I don't want to lose that. But really, I don't want to see a production forum where the first page is full of the same threads about skrillex bass, and have to listen to chad talking about his rape history in every thread.

If we go the one forum route, there'll probably be stricter modding, there'd have to be, to address people's current grievances. If we split the forum into basic and advanced then we end up with a situation where the advanced forum won't tolerate threads like this - for obvious reasons, it's an advanced forum, where the topics should be heavy and educational and weighty and shrouded in ponderful beard stroking - it's no place for a thread like this. Ultimately a thread like this would end up in the basic forum, which would really just end up looking like a waste basket for threads like this one and "ChadDubs Top 10 Ways To Be Beasty", and ultimately we'd need to up modding to stop it being a waste hole. So to me, it seems no matter what happens we get stricter modding, which really does just suck the personality and humanity out of the forum. Like I said, threads like this are a good thing in my opinion, but in either of those scenarios they end up becoming a bit cancerous, rather than just a one off that's something silly and fun.

But, I do have other problems with the split forum thing,

I don't like the idea of splitting it because I kinda feel like a lot of the 'veteran' users will end up knocking around, almost exclusively, in the advanced section so as to avoid the new 'annoying' members they seem to dislike so intensely, occasionally they might descend from the advanced section to make a thread in the basic forum that they won't maintain, then they'll pop back off to chat in the advanced section again; so i feel like new members could be left with a lot less direction than they get now. I feel like it will make the advice in the basic forum kinda 'junk-food' like, easily dispensable, with little to no follow through, depth, or direction given with it - to me that's different to providing basic knowledge.

The repeat threads, e.g., skrillex threads, are annoying, but the advanced forum will develop it's own annoying questions that get asked over and over again, recent 'basic forum graduates' will be entering the advanced area, not reading the stickies and asking: "what exactly IS fm synthesis?!" over and over again and the problem will still exist just in a different form.

As well as that, I'm not entirely sure why having an advanced forum would lead to more advanced topics being discussed. If people aren't willing to make advanced threads here then I'm not sure why they'd be willing to in an advanced forum. So I feel like the problems we're facing are better faced by us as forum users altering how we act when we're here: answering questions with more depth, making more threads that have real or interesting educational value, supporting those threads, taking part in discussions more often, being a little more tolerant of everyone: including the idiots who want it all spoon fed to them (yea, hard I know, but really, a lot of the time I think they just need direction).

I feel like everyone could really lose out here when we look at it in a longer term. Although granted, it is hard to predict exactly what's going to happen and these are just my predictions, although I have thought about it a fair deal I may be completely wrong in them - it might go a completely different way.

Ugh, it's really just too big a topic to go into all the ins and outs of it, I could type all day, I'm sure you could too; ultimately I don't think too many people will be swayed by the words of others on a forum when it comes to something like this - partly why when stuff like this comes along I make, as Basic said 'un-thought-out' threads, haha. It's just easier to summarize what you think through the medium of communist octopuses and make the most of what you have while you have it.

EDIT: If anybody wants to respond to this I suggest we do it in the other thread, 'serious time folks' set up by legend4ry.

[Siderealdb]

My concern is that it would just end up deep heads over here, and bros over there. That doesn't really help anyone, and I'll tell you why. There is this presumption that all the noobs just make bro, and that all the deep heads somehow graduated from that. Honestly both styles have some sort of lameness/boringness attributed to them, Which is why I'd suggest we just make music. Trying to pin people to a certain sound creates expectations that just aren't conducive to creativity. I wish the genre of dubstep didn't even exist, then at least it would be easier to determine what is good or not without this checklist you have to complete to be appreciated by either side. Splitting the two, as suggested, would really just exacerbate this. I mean, I'm not a vet, and I don't want to feel obligated to fulfill the desires of either side. I just want to make music.

[kaiori breathe]

I wish the genre of dubstep didn't even exist

I don't think it really does.

[hifi]

where is the picture with nowaysj shattin on Chad?

[nowaysj]

EDIT: If anybody wants to respond to this I suggest we do it in the other thread, 'serious time folks' set up by legend4ry.

Good idea, thought this thread would turn into the pro one forum thread.

I've got some issues with some of the things you said up there, I'll take it over to leg's thread, time permitting.

In the meantime, check you're drains, the octopus is paying y'all a visit tonight.

[lyons238]

lmao this is hilarious. he did his research!!!

[Siderealdb]

where is the picture with nowaysj shattin on Chad?

I would put that on every shirt i own. I still draw it on every wall I come across though, so I guess it's just as satisfying.

[Basic A]

My concern is that it would just end up deep heads over here, and bros over there. That doesn't really help anyone, and I'll tell you why. There is this presumption that all the noobs just make bro, and that all the deep heads somehow graduated from that. Honestly both styles have some sort of lameness/boringness attributed to them, Which is why I'd suggest we just make music. Trying to pin people to a certain sound creates expectations that just aren't conducive to creativity. I wish the genre of dubstep didn't even exist, then at least it would be easier to determine what is good or not without this checklist you have to complete to be appreciated by either side. Splitting the two, as suggested, would really just exacerbate this. I mean, I'm not a vet, and I don't want to feel obligated to fulfill the desires of either side. I just want to make music.

Your of the assumption that everyone who wants this split is ;

1. Only making one side of dubstep, when in fact, alot of us make both sides of the dubstep coin
2. The only genre the producers of this forum make is dubstep, which simply isnt true
3. We dont admire the production merit of both sides... which also isnt true. Im sure just as I can see the sound design merit of more agressive tunes you can see the groove merit of the more traditional dubstep...

I hardly see this as subgenre'ing production forum as I would assume both Depone and Forsaken will be invited to the advance forum, and lets face it, the contrast between what they both typically make is stark to say the least.

no, it wont be 'deep' here and 'bro' there, Id like to think an advanced subforum would be free of alot of the bias you see on the production forum, because advanced users are of the level where they recognize that all genres have there merits and that production techniques are universally applicable bits of knowledge, not genre specific.

[Siderealdb]

My concern is that it would just end up deep heads over here, and bros over there. That doesn't really help anyone, and I'll tell you why. There is this presumption that all the noobs just make bro, and that all the deep heads somehow graduated from that. Honestly both styles have some sort of lameness/boringness attributed to them, Which is why I'd suggest we just make music. Trying to pin people to a certain sound creates expectations that just aren't conducive to creativity. I wish the genre of dubstep didn't even exist, then at least it would be easier to determine what is good or not without this checklist you have to complete to be appreciated by either side. Splitting the two, as suggested, would really just exacerbate this. I mean, I'm not a vet, and I don't want to feel obligated to fulfill the desires of either side. I just want to make music.

Your of the assumption that everyone who wants this split is ;

1. Only making one side of dubstep, when in fact, alot of us make both sides of the dubstep coin
2. The only genre the producers of this forum make is dubstep, which simply isnt true
3. We dont admire the production merit of both sides... which also isnt true. Im sure just as I can see the sound design merit of more agressive tunes you can see the groove merit of the more traditional dubstep...

I hardly see this as subgenre'ing production forum as I would assume both Depone and Forsaken will be invited to the advance forum, and lets face it, the contrast between what they both typically make is stark to say the least.

no, it wont be 'deep' here and 'bro' there, Id like to think an advanced subforum would be free of alot of the bias you see on the production forum, because advanced users are of the level where they recognize that all genres have there merits and that production techniques are universally applicable bits of knowledge, not genre specific.

Watch.

[nowaysj]

no, it wont be 'deep' here and 'bro' there, Id like to think an advanced subforum would be free of alot of the bias you see on the production forum, because advanced users are of the level where they recognize that all genres have there merits and that production techniques are universally applicable bits of knowledge, not genre specific.

Hear hear!

[wub]

Still no simple locking of repeated topics which would really be the end all to this, because the mods are afraid of offending the 8,000 people registering daily to post topics that already exist on the top pages of forums.

[jrisreal]

where is the picture with nowaysj shattin on Chad?

I would put that on every shirt i own. I still draw it on every wall I come across though, so I guess it's just as satisfying.

WHERE IS IT! I WANA SEE!

And as to the forum split, I have to stick on nowaysj's side. I hearby swear to not hide in the advanced forum, but also help out the noobs.

[Siderealdb]

Actually, it would be cool to have a place for all the wise ones to disappear, feel almighty, and circle jerk each other in private.

[benjam]

Two things, firstly, it's worrying that people seem to be taking this more seriously than the recent AV referendum. (Only Brits will know what I'm on about.)

Secondly;

It's octopuses.

Its far more important than that

[paravrais]

Basic A knows where it's at!

[kaiori breathe]

where is the picture with nowaysj shattin on Chad?

I would put that on every shirt i own. I still draw it on every wall I come across though, so I guess it's just as satisfying.

WHERE IS IT! I WANA SEE!

And as to the forum split, I have to stick on nowaysj's side. I hearby swear to not hide in the advanced forum, but also help out the noobs.

Herein lies another problem with splitting the forum.

How does it even work?

It can't just be open to everyone from the off, otherwise ChadDub and jrisreal and every other new member will just go straight to it and you'll end up in the same scenario you're in now; so do you get invited? If so what's the criteria?

Will it be done according to length of membership here? There are people here who've produced years but contribute very little to the forum, and equally people with posts counts in single digits who've only been here a few weeks who's every thread has been of a very high, educational level that's really helped. Lurkers really lose out here, they might not all have accounts but surely we should consider them too, I lurked for a good four months before I joined, there are people who have been lurking for years - they'd just get screwed over and stuck in the basic forum despite the length of time they'd been here hiding our and absorbing knowledge, and ultimately, this should be a place of free information where anybody can come and take from it without requirements being set for them to meet before hand. The problem with an advanced forum by merit of length of time you've been producing or a member of this forum is that there are too many exceptions to the general rule making it horribly unfair both on the people who don't get in and those who do (because they'll lose out on the contributions that could have been made by those who didn't get in)

Does it go by post count? If so, jrisreal gets in instantly despite his still being a n00b and not having much to contribute (which is essentially something at the core of this - people wanting a place to discuss deep and advanced topics regarding production) with regards to 'advanced production'.

Neither of those seem like viable ways of doing it. So there's only really one more route to take.

According to Contribution.

In that case, I probably wouldn't get in, as I have nothing to contribute to an advanced production forum, my production tech/knowledge isn't advanced. I still don't know what a compressor really does, or what a parabolic shaper is, or how reverb works and how that's different from delay. I literally know nothing. Somebody had to tell me who mala was a few months ago... MALA... Seriously, I'm a production idiot. I use all these things but I don't know what any of them do or where they came from or what I'm meant to do with them. I haven't made a single production related thread in my entire time on DSF simply because I've nothing to contribute in that realm (maybe in music theory and the likes but not production) because I know nothing. I just do stuff and sometimes it works.

Are my other contributions taken into consideration (music theory/answering questions/samples...etc)? If so the new forum again becomes kind of silly, because everyone gets in despite their knowing nothing about advanced production and we end up again in the same position we're in now where people who know nothing are making threads and getting in the way of these in depth discussions people want to have.

Essentially this advanced forum can only exist effectively as something that is inherently unfair - if it's made fair, then we end up in the same situation we're in now, with people like me in it who have nothing to contribute in terms of production knowledge who are there simply because it seemed unfair to leave us out.

You might think that's not a problem, but this is a community, and if we're just going to be making little secret cool clubs that exclude people and prevent people getting their learn on then really this place won't be any better than a school play ground where we make fun of the fat kid and tell him to go play on his own.

[paravrais]

I disagree. There is no need to make it an exclusive forum. It's not a way of enforced segregation, all it serves is to stop us having to wade through "here's my first tune, give me feedback" and "how can I be skrillex?" threads. I firmly believe that simply making the sub-forum an extra click once in production is going to keep the really n00by threads in the top part of the forum. I don't think it necessarily has to be for super advanced production techniques. Just a place for producers to talk shop without having to deal with repetitive questions.

The sub-forum will filter itself because only people who bother to read through the stickies and find it will go into it and those are the exact kind of people we want there. People who can't be bothered to read what the stickies or forum description will just come into production, make their first ever post asking how to recreate ghosts and sprite or whatever it's called and bugger off again.