how to know when you are going overboard in composition?

[makemerich]

i dont know about you guys but i tend to do a rediculous amount of layers at times and it just seems like making everything fit at times, as well as even writing it can be laborious and ends up coming out when big dick cluster with no continuity. it seems that most songs i listen to never have more than 3 simultaneous layers and have some type of relativity. what have you guys found works in controlling your layering impulses while keeping a song original and intersting? also it seems like in professional recordings EVERYTHING is limited and there is not too much dimension other than hard left and right and CENTER. is this the way to go?

[nowaysj]

You could build up, or you could build out. It is easier building up. That's why we tend to do it. Keep it moving man. Can go back and layer in some subtlety laterz.

Trick is, of course, the three layers that the pros use are all quality at like every level, like they're musically interesting, the sounds fit the message of the music and the song itself, and they're fit together to have solid impact and space in the mix. Tricky shitz, those pros.

[MexicanKangaroo]

It's the subtle things that the pros do that make it sound full, and it's one of the most difficult things to get it right. Normally I create and resample some wicked bass that I chop up and arrange and I don't want to layer it with any other compositional elements. In the end, it's going to happen anyway.

Composition is important in electronic music compared to other genres. It's obviously more the mixing and the sense of space that makes a track sound good... I wish it wasn't lol.
If you're used to layering, it's a start. Subtle layers and hats + percs are generally the key to the flow of a composition, and then eq and stuff to mix it better and create a sense of space.
Oh, btw: the human brain can only handle at the most (generally) 4 major elements/melodies in a composition. I remember some mastering engineer telling me that... not sure if it's true or not though.

[benjam]

If im working on track and I find myself adding a lot without it really being needed I tend to leave it and come back with fresh ears. Ill spend a while trying different arrangements and then delete anything thats iffy.

[paravrais]

Don't add anything unless you are sure why you are doing it and that the track needs it.

[makemerich]

Don't add anything unless you are sure why you are doing it and that the track needs it.

i never know what im doing

[TheBassTest]

Don't add anything unless you are sure why you are doing it and that the track needs it.

i never know what im doing

experimentation is key...dont worry about the technical things yet until you feel you are ready to get technical...

[mks]

Arrangement is just as important as composition.

Build things up and then strip them down.

[hifi]

when almost every instrument in your track is clashing with each other not only in the frequency spectrum but just over 7 melodies going on at once. sometimes it's just not needed well in dubstep that is. don't harass me and tell me that full symphony orchestras do it all the time.

[AllNightDayDream]

I have this same problem from time to time.

Plenty of layers doesn't have to be a bad thing, just so long as they're not all fighting for attention. Like others said, space is important. If you've got 6 different channels on an 8 bar loop when every channels fills up every bar, you're gonna have a problem. Strip down the separate layers and make them speak to each other. Like in classical music, there's sometimes dozens of layers, but each has a specific purpose. Don't have 3 melodies going at once unless they're harmonious. Have them exchange off one another.

Also decide which elements carry the most emotional weight, and which are more for carrying structure and rhythm, and adjust the dynamics accordingly. In general have the interesting melodies the loudest, but sometimes it's the drum kit that's most interesting, so it's totally subjective. As the producer of the track you may feel like you're cheating the track by having a real neat part sitting in the background, but that makes it that much better when the listener notices.

[Rubik]

I have this same problem from time to time.

Plenty of layers doesn't have to be a bad thing, just so long as they're not all fighting for attention. Like others said, space is important. If you've got 6 different channels on an 8 bar loop when every channels fills up every bar, you're gonna have a problem. Strip down the separate layers and make them speak to each other. Like in classical music, there's sometimes dozens of layers, but each has a specific purpose. Don't have 3 melodies going at once unless they're harmonious. Have them exchange off one another.

Also decide which elements carry the most emotional weight, and which are more for carrying structure and rhythm, and adjust the dynamics accordingly. In general have the interesting melodies the loudest, but sometimes it's the drum kit that's most interesting, so it's totally subjective. As the producer of the track you may feel like you're cheating the track by having a real neat part sitting in the background, but that makes it that much better when the listener notices.

Really good post. The bit about having different elements play off each other is very important. Learning to write a cohesive melody in parts played by different instruments of sounds is a great way to make a melody or even bassline come alive. I love doing it with blines. Always sounds like the basses are competing against each other and shit.

[Siderealdb]

Just do it right. I'm so used to classical music that I'm never overwhelmed by too many elements. Retards can only concentrate on a few things at a time, which is why you should go out of your way to appeal to them. Less is more they'll tell you. So just pay attention.

[Shum]

The OP is right to suspect that with popular music all sounds are compressed to death and that panning is sparingly used (the reasoning i've found is that most listeners honestly don't give a shit about such things), often the instrumentation itself is chosen for it's presence and lack of dynamics (think about those rich synth leads you hear in commercial pop music).

As for layering, as Siderealdb said, your ears will know when it's too much. Here's an idea you might like to toy with, I don't know whether you use presets or build your own sounds (hopefully a mixture of both) but it can help to pair up sounds/patches that work well together so when you go to compose you have good sounds straight out of the box as it were.

This is a good question I think in that it highlights the need to think about your compositions rather than heaping together sick sounds and then beating your head against a wall when they don't work.

[Dystinkt]

Its little things that count. you need to be really anal about the tiniest details in your track to make it stand out. every production masterclass i've watched they all get so focused on tiny details that you barely even notice in the tune but thats what gives it a fuller feel. As an example, if you've seen bengas masterclass vid his drums are filled with little rhythms you can barely hear but they add so much to the tune regardless.

[nowaysj]

I've got to get into a track and out, real quick. If I linger I invariably build up. Once I get the whole thing kinda sketched out, then the vertical obsessiveness can pay off.

[samurai]

I think this question, and the answers you will get, are going to be totally subjective, because it's all down to individual style and preference. I personally don't like too many elements in a track. I don't like a track to be sonically overwhelming. for me the most difficult part of composition is stripping away the elements I don't need. I usually spend ages creating layers of pads and melodies, but these don't get used much for the finished article.

other people like a lot of stuff happening in their music. so yeah.

[zerbaman]

I try to pile up as much as I can. Before structuring, in a 16 or 32 bar loop, just getting as much together as possible.
Then if certain elements clash, I keep them out of eachother's way through structuring.
This is the main reason I use FL, I like being able to build up, tear down, and start again.

[the2bos]

best post in a year.. so helpful

[RandoRando]

I recommend doing alot o layers for one element but have it wear you canbarely heAr them, kind of like melodies for your subconcious And I bet you this post will be on top Of the second page like all my posts

[traffek]

i think it all matters on what you are going for as well. i tend to go for a max of 3 layers for a sound, hell two typically cause my computer will generally start shitting its pants if i havent bounced it down yet, and even when i do, i then have all the soft synths in there eating my cpu still in ableton and end up with my projects hitting 60%+ while trying to finish them up. its a pain in the arse for sure.

i also cannot concentrate on that many sounds at once. i tend to make all of my tunes in headphones as well, which to me lets me hear them better, especially when building the meat and potatoes of tune.

its hard to find the line though on when enough is enough for me all the time though. i need to listen to a track a lot.