tipping bartenders

[esfandyar]

Minimum wage is minimum wage tho. If thats what your wage is advertised as then thats what your wage is, anything you receive extra is a bonus. I worked 60 hours a week at certain points for minimum wage, I did not factor in any tips or anything that I may or may not have received. I just assumed I would be earning the minimum wage. I dont see why it should be any different in America.

If you go to a shoe store, you tell the worker what size you want, they will then go and find the shoes. You may then require a different size, which they will go and get for you. They dont expect to be tipped. Theyre proabably working for minimum wage. I dont see what the difference is and I dont see how being forced to tip somebody no matter how shit the service may have been is exploiting the American Service Industry.

luckily for america you live in croydon. its a little embarrassing you are satisfied with your minimum wage you were receiving. your bosses were taking advantage of your hard labor giving you scraps of the loot while they were receiving most of the profit from your labor. your cognitive dissonance is amazing.

people selling shoes earn a lot more than servers in the states, hourly. tips are not part of the wage you receive here with that kind of job. you not seeing the difference is pathetic. they are not working for minimum wage, you assume a lot. i make less than minimum wage hourly, thats the difference. thats why tips are important.

[esfandyar]

so far it just seems most of you are all ok with exploiting how the service industry works in the states. what im saying is that its different here. hopefully you all understand. if you dont tip here you hurt the livelihood of workers within the service industry.

if a bar was to make a server get paid a decent wage hourly and not factor in tips, thus increasing the prices on the food and alcohol to accommodate, then no one would go there because they would go down the street to the business that has cheaper prices. here, no one would get it if that was placed into a business model. this discussion also brings up something which i find hard to live with because its capitalism at its finest. only here in america does a service of work have a major part of the income come into question with how hard you work in the payer's eyes. there are so many things that might give the payer the idea that you are not working hard, when in reality you are trying to keep a full bar of people happy.

derp every other country manages to do it...people are always gonna go to bars, even if they feel they're being ripped off.

so if our country does it differently that means its wrong? it seems to work fine.

[grillis]

it seems to work fine.

but you're complaining about it not working?

and i don't get how you can earn less than minimum wage.. isn't that what the minimum is for?

I also tipped in all the places necessary according to your protocols each time i've visited America, yet i still think it's quite backward and that it's wrong to feel so self-entitled as an employee in one of these industries. The problem is with America not with the rest of the world.

[__________]

Get a service job in the states and then make an opinion. If you are satisfied with no tip, then let me know where you work and I will go in there and never tip you. And you will be happy yes? Cool. Can't wait.

It isnt a law, youre just doing your job, why should you expect to get tipped?? People read a menu, see that something costs £5, it doesnt say anywhere that should actually be £5 + tip in order to not get shit service the next time you want a drink.

If I gave shit service to everybody that didnt tip me in my office job I'd be sacked......dont see why its any different.

A tip should be earnt not customary.

Edit:- Like I said I was a barman for a year and a half. Got paid minimum wage and work 10am - 4am on weekends.

its different in england compared to the US.

Fuck off. Hard work is hard work wherever you are. You should think yourself lucky to get a tip...you're in no way entitled to it. A decent barman is a decent barman, he shouldn't need a kick up the ass with a 50p tip every five minutes.
Working is close enough to prostitution as it is. I'd feel like a proper scab buttering people up for 50p every time I served them.

If you really can't survive without tips, I think the issue is with your country's or state's minimum wage, not the person doing (or not doing) the tipping.

[LA_Boxers]

Minimum wage is minimum wage tho. If thats what your wage is advertised as then thats what your wage is, anything you receive extra is a bonus. I worked 60 hours a week at certain points for minimum wage, I did not factor in any tips or anything that I may or may not have received. I just assumed I would be earning the minimum wage. I dont see why it should be any different in America.

If you go to a shoe store, you tell the worker what size you want, they will then go and find the shoes. You may then require a different size, which they will go and get for you. They dont expect to be tipped. Theyre proabably working for minimum wage. I dont see what the difference is and I dont see how being forced to tip somebody no matter how shit the service may have been is exploiting the American Service Industry.

luckily for america you live in croydon. its a little embarrassing you are satisfied with your minimum wage you were receiving. your bosses were taking advantage of your hard labor giving you scraps of the loot while they were receiving most of the profit from your labor. your cognitive dissonance is amazing.

people selling shoes earn a lot more than servers in the states, hourly. tips are not part of the wage you receive here with that kind of job. you not seeing the difference is pathetic. they are not working for minimum wage, you assume a lot. i make less than minimum wage hourly, thats the difference. thats why tips are important.

I wasnt satisfied with minimum wage, which is why I left that job and got one that paid me a decent amount of money.....without having to rely on people tipping me no matter what sort of service I gave them. So my bosses were taking advantage of me by telling me I would be paid a certain amount of money, then paying me that amount of money, which by law they had to pay me?! I would say that you are being taken advantage of more, as you are technically being paid illegally (How can there be a 'minimum wage' if you dont even get that much!) What happens if for whatever reason nobody came into your bar one day, so you were unable to earn any tips, you employer would be breaking the law by no paying minimum wage no?

Seeing as I have actually done the job we are talking about I'm pretty sure I can comment better than most. I feel its quite arrogant to think people should tip you for doing your job. Its not their fault your employer does not even pay you the minimum wage.....so why should they have to pay extra to suppliment you? A beer is £4 it should cost £4. If they feel you have earned a tip, then they can tip you. They shouldnt feel pressured to do something that they do not have to do!!

[esfandyar]

it seems to work fine.

but you're complaining about it not working?

and i don't get how you can earn less than minimum wage.. isn't that what the minimum is for?

I also tipped in all the places necessary according to your protocols each time i've visited America, yet i still think it's quite backward and that it's wrong to feel so self-entitled as an employee in one of these industries. The problem is with America not with the rest of the world.

no, our way of service does work here in general. I just wanted to speak out about it because I know this is an international forum, and cultural customs are different worldwide. and yes, if you have a job that factors tips in as part of your income, by hour you make less than minimum wage here in the states. If you come here, respect our way of life. Is that too much to ask?

[esfandyar]

there are loads of problems with all of our countries. this one has a simple solution- throw a little money towards your bartender in the US.

[grillis]

Is that too much to ask?

No, just make sure you do ask though. As i've said this whole time the problem is to be acting so self-entitled by way of giving shit service simply because you assume a tip. Personally I feel it shouldn't be legal for an establishment to deduct from a minimum wage based on assumed-tipping either, so introducing a law against this provides a somewhat simpler solution.

[scspkr99]

Is it true that in (parts of) the US bartenders and waitresses have to pay tax on what they expect to earn in gratuities?

Is it also true that in these industries employers are allowed to pay < the minimum wage because of the tips the staff are expected to earn?

[icanicant]

I dont understand this way of thinking that tipping should be automatic for things. It is just companies taking the piss out of customers and employees. it allows them to pay less tax on things sold and wages.
Esyfandyar I dont see how you are getting angry at people for saying it is a shit way to do things, surely you can see it would be better if there was no tipping and fairer wages? Obviously there is a problem in that it is unlikely to change in the US however it could do. Kind of like how there is a backlash currently in India to the bribing culture there could easily be the same thing in the US over tipping which is essentially accepted bribing

[esfandyar]

Is that too much to ask?

No, just make sure you do ask though. As i've said this whole time the problem is to be acting so self-entitled by way of giving shit service simply because you assume a tip. Personally I feel it shouldn't be legal for an establishment to deduct from a minimum wage based on assumed-tipping either, so introducing a law against this provides a somewhat simpler solution.

if i came off as self-entitled i apologize. im getting tired so im off to pass out.

Is it true that in (parts of) the US bartenders and waitresses have to pay tax on what they expect to earn in gratuities?

Is it also true that in these industries employers are allowed to pay < the minimum wage because of the tips the staff are expected to earn?

first question- yes you have to report your tips and get taxed by the fed and the state

second question- actually i cant remember how this payment towards service industry workers evolved into acceptance, but yes they are allowed to do this.

[badger]

its a little embarrassing you are satisfied with your minimum wage you were receiving. your bosses were taking advantage of your hard labor giving you scraps of the loot while they were receiving most of the profit from your labor. your cognitive dissonance is amazing.

that makes absolutely no sense

it's the employers in the US that are taking the piss and somehow you accept this? i can understand that with the way things work it's important for you to get these tips but that doesn't mean that you're entitled to them. it's a totally fucked up way of doing things that employers can take the piss out of employees in such a way that the customer is basically coerced into tipping staff to ensure decent service

not criticising you or any other bar worker as you have to work within the system that's in place, but it's an awful state of affairs

[DRTY]

If the drinks are a reasonable price, or I'm horribly fucking pissed, or the waitress is insanely hot then I'll tip. They get paid fuck all, and have to deal with endless amounts of twats all night so I don't mind giving them a tiny fraction of my change sometimes. I'd only do it once though, not on every drink. And only if I am particularly pleased with their efforts.

[apmje]

Tipping Bartenders. Serious?

I don't even tip waitresses. I'm fucking skint, just like you!

[jameshk]

Fuck no.

[scspkr99]

its a little embarrassing you are satisfied with your minimum wage you were receiving. your bosses were taking advantage of your hard labor giving you scraps of the loot while they were receiving most of the profit from your labor. your cognitive dissonance is amazing.

that makes absolutely no sense

it's the employers in the US that are taking the piss and somehow you accept this? i can understand that with the way things work it's important for you to get these tips but that doesn't mean that you're entitled to them. it's a totally fucked up way of doing things that employers can take the piss out of employees in such a way that the customer is basically coerced into tipping staff to ensure decent service

not criticising you or any other bar worker as you have to work within the system that's in place, but it's an awful state of affairs

It's an employers market and the staff are getting squeezed between the employers demands for low wages and the customers demands for low prices.

For the employers to pay staff appropriately they would have to charge the customer more and you'd end up paying more anyway or deciding to go somewhere else where the staff aren't paid properly. The staff are getting shafted here and I'd rather pass the cash over. I know ideally customers would pay a fair price the staff get a fair wage but that's just not happening.

[test_recordings]

Speaking from experience as both a bartender and a customer it's worth it because they feel obliged to do a decent service and might remember you as well as you don't feel like you're being overly demanding making requests (even if it's just to get a decent pint in the first place)

[wolf89]

Ok firstly, if you're paying 5 dollars plus a 1 dollar tip how does anyone afford to get drunk at a bar

Secondly the whole tipping thing makes me think that you must not have anything like a proper pub that we have here. I mean giving bad service for not being tipped? Shit would immediately kick off over here if someone jus started ignoring someone at the bar like that.

Glad I actually know about the tipping thing now anyway, I didn't before and it would be embarrassing if made it to America then called someone out for being a tnuc and not serving me.

[deadly_habit]

cracking open a bottle top or pouring a drink from a tap, does not instantly equal tip
mixing a quality drink does

so many shitty bartenders out there who don't deserve a tip based on their skills

[kidshuffle]

As a bartender (who gets tip-out, not just tips), I still always tip at bars. Usually a dollar per drink for the first little while, then we see how it goes after that.

cracking open a bottle top or pouring a drink from a tap, does not instantly equal tip
mixing a quality drink does

so many shitty bartenders out there who don't deserve a tip based on their skills