Marx

the acid never lies · Post by **the acid never lies** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:52 pm

It may be something of an open secret around here that I am an unrepentant marxist, but I just wanted to pose the question...

Has anybody actually read him? Marx seems to be one of those characters that loads of people have an opinion on but far less seem to have anything of substance to say about him.

What impressions do people get when they hear so-and-so is a Marxist or what impression do people have about Marx's writings more generally if you haven't really encountered them?

Just curious

noam · Post by **noam** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:55 pm

never read him

to be honest its never interested me that much

no doubt will change once i make the effort to read it though

the acid never lies · Post by **the acid never lies** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:33 pm

I think it can be hard to find a 'way in' with Marx... his texts can seem pretty intimidating but once you get going on it, it's really worth it. The thing is there has been such a concerted effort to sling mud on his ideas that it is hard to talk to anyone about it without feeling like an evangelical. I imagine it's a bit like trying to have a candid conversation about evolution might have been at one point.

Terry Eagleton has written a funny and accessible book called 'Why Marx Was Right'. Anybody who knows Eagleton will know to take his jabs with a pinch of salt, but his book is a great introduction to all the common refutations of Marx and why he thinks they're a load of rubbish. Conveniently the pdf is floating around... http://ifile.it/o6azsc/ebooksclub.org__ ... x86x51.pdf

HamCrescendo · Post by **HamCrescendo** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:56 pm

id say hes even worse than the bible in terms of "everyones got an opinion, but no ones read it"

boring beardy caaahnt

(read a few bits and pieces years ago before i read any philosophical/academic text, and apart from those few choice lines it really was dull and dreary. how is that supposed to compete with the sun? karl should have bolded some more important words.)

the acid never lies · Post by **the acid never lies** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:19 am

If you got smoked as much as he did you'd be a dullard too... but he's like, proper deep

HamCrescendo · Post by **HamCrescendo** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:29 am

oh... that marx.

thought u meant

the acid never lies · Post by **the acid never lies** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:35 am

Uncanny...

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:41 am

I've never read him either...

but I keep reaching him through my interest in early 20th century modernism...
futurism/constructivism/suprematism/The Bauhaus and De Stijl Schools

It's my favorite time period in art - I've read some theoretical work by Wassily Kandinsky

..the "red triangle being the upward and forward movement of the people" etc...

..black represents the soul moving through fields of color which are music

and the whole time period resonates with equality - in education - in working together - in material usage
and they(the artists of the time) are responsible for the communist revolution as a social and political movement -
although it was immediatly usurped by control freaks and people who failed to believe in the abilities of the people..

and so I should most definately read his work.

Thank you for reminding me.

Nietzsche is in there alot too...

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:51 am

Here is a kind of creepy picture of Kandinsky in front of one of his paintings...
He was painting music..first time in history that total abstraction was accepted..

I would love to live with this one for awhile...all windchimes and primitives
see the red square...and the boats and the moon on the water

borrowed · Post by **borrowed** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:58 am

art.

the acid never lies · Post by **the acid never lies** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:02 am

Cool picture! Yeah I really like constructivism too. Since you're interested in that period/aesthetic, I would recommend watching Man With a Movie Camera. It's pretty much a cinematic orchestra, with loads of weird editing and all about celebrating the forward march towards communism (whoops...). It all about PRODUCTION! and MACHINES! and such, and tries to demystify commodities by reminding us everything is a product of human labour. HELL YEAH!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4189244913

Unfortunately I couldn't find a version with the original soundtrack but this one with a modern score might be interesting.

the acid never lies · Post by **the acid never lies** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:04 am

borrowed wrote:

art.

Interesting you should put that. Little known fact, Pollock and the other abstract expressionists from New York were helped out by the CIA so that their high profile could be used as a counterpoint to the orthodoxy of Socialist Realism. Freedom and anarchy versus conformity and tradition.

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:19 am

They thought of machines as a way to liberate man from labor so they could spend more time on intellectual pursuits...

Now - instead of building wealth all around - and developing minds..
the machines are being used to squeeze the money - from the people..
to put it into the hands of a few...who fail to be civically minded

That my friends - makes me kind of red...

In regards to Pollock..
America in the 50's...was running things as far as art was concerned...
They embodied the true communist spirit more than any other place..
But then again...wealthy business people and entrepreneurs had vision back then..

of a better future..for everyone..

(and because alot of the exiled soviets and germans had come here - and taught at our schools)

Black Mountain College in Asheville N.C. - was like the new Bauhaus

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:54 am

Nobody ever talks to me about this stuff in real life.

Shum · Post by **Shum** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:58 am

the acid never lies wrote:Cool picture! Yeah I really like constructivism too. Since you're interested in that period/aesthetic, I would recommend watching Man With a Movie Camera. It's pretty much a cinematic orchestra, with loads of weird editing and all about celebrating the forward march towards communism (whoops...). It all about PRODUCTION! and MACHINES! and such, and tries to demystify commodities by reminding us everything is a product of human labour. HELL YEAH!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4189244913

Unfortunately I couldn't find a version with the original soundtrack but this one with a modern score might be interesting.

The Cinematic Orchestra did a score for this, I didn't think it was quite in the musical spirit of that time but it still does a good job of it.

That's a well interesting fact about US abstract expressionists and the CIA.

ed teach · Post by **ed teach** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:19 am

the acid never lies wrote:
borrowed wrote:

art.
Interesting you should put that. Little known fact, Pollock and the other abstract expressionists from New York were helped out by the CIA so that their high profile could be used as a counterpoint to the orthodoxy of Socialist Realism. Freedom and anarchy versus conformity and tradition.

Remember that scene in The Big Lebowski when he first meets Maude?

Hyoscine · Post by **Hyoscine** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:31 am

Just another dusty old leftist.

esfandyar · Post by **esfandyar** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:40 am

Stirner as the avatar good lookin mate. Talk about an old school beef :p.

Marx and Max Stirner wrote books critiquing eachother's philosophies.

Respect to Marx but I say fuck the left as much as the right.

nowaysj · Post by **nowaysj** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:16 am

never read, never pretended to have read

AllNightDayDream · Post by **AllNightDayDream** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:04 am

Read the manifesto multiple times, and dug into the first volume of kapital as much as I could (a few chapters... jesus christ it's fucking dense). Kapital is best read as a reference to particular mechanisms of capitalism, to skip to certain sections and study. The best and worst part about it is how excruciatingly in-depth it is.

I believe marx realized a few very true things, however a lot of his concepts don't translate well verbatim when comparing it to how our industries are run today. Worker's rights can't be viewed in the same way now. And the exploitation of the lower classes is even more centralized than the classic and simple bourgeoisie vs proletariat phenomena that was extremely prevalent during his time. The ugliest facet of capitalism is now intangible, and understanding the means of production is not as important as understanding market behavior, and corporate trade.

I believe socialism is however inevitable, as marx said. The direction our technology has taken us I think is telling of how whole facets of our society are becoming more open, social, democratic, efficient, etc. From how we build computers to how we fight wars to how we communicate to how we purchase goods. At some point, humans will become obsolete in the workplace and things like money will become less relevant.

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