new drug called Whoonga

[flyingointment]

I just think it's misguided to refer to these people as "dumb"...the NORMAL human reaction would be to feel sorry for them, not to condemn them.

No one said that them robbing HIV patients is ok, but as someone who understands what addiction is like, I'm not going to assume every single Whoonga user ended up that way due to them being stupid or a bad person.

...and who's to say every single Whoonga user even knows what goes into it? Evidently, most people who buy the drug don't prepare it themselves.

There wouldn't be a standard street price if people were always cooking this shit up on their own.

[capo ultra]

anyone who would watch that video and the first thought in their head is 'dumb fuckers' needs to be put down imo

[Genevieve]

I just think it's misguided to refer to these people as "dumb"...the NORMAL human reaction would be to feel sorry for them, not to condemn them.

I do feel sorry for them, but to blame it all on their environment is naive and an insult to people who show similar behavior who grow up in a 'good environment' and people who live in the same environment and don't resort to smoking whoonga.

It's funny. Butt jolokia is criticized for making a sweeping generalization by other people who make sweeping generalizations. And as soon as someone as someone finds the middle ground it's bad.

No one said that them robbing HIV patients is ok, but as someone who understands what addiction is like, I'm not going to assume every single Whoonga user ended up that way due to them being stupid or a bad person.

But are you going to say they all ended up the way they did because they're poor?

..and who's to say every single Whoonga user even knows what goes into it? Evidently, most people who buy the drug don't prepare it themselves.

There wouldn't be a standard street price if people were always cooking this shit up on their own.

Nothing in the video implies whether they know what's in there or not.

[flyingointment]

But are you going to say they all ended up the way they did because they're poor?

Not at all, I realize I myself brought up the money angle in one of my posts mocking bass hertz, but it was more inspired by the misguided notion that these people must be choosing this dangerous new drug over others because they were legitimately inclined to do it (out of stupidity or whateva), and not because it's cheap, powerful and widely available.

Furthermore, I don't think you can really expect the kind of drug awareness that we have here in the West in other places. There's a reason why my parents think weed is just as dangerous as cocaine. lawl

Of course, I'm not saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE for people in such places to be aware of the differences in addiction potential between drugs and the harm they do...it's just very likely that most of the people who get into this kind of shit weren't educated about it to begin with.

[Liam92]

?

[LACE]

Really weird how Butt Jolo feels any sympathy for HIV patients, because his logic is of the ''well, you never should have opened your legs'' sort.

[therapist]

Really weird how Butt Jolo feels any sympathy for HIV patients, because his logic is of the ''well, you never should have opened your legs'' sort.

That's not the same at all.

[fractal]

I just think it's misguided to refer to these people as "dumb"...the NORMAL human reaction would be to feel sorry for them, not to condemn them.

I do feel sorry for them, but to blame it all on their environment is naive and an insult to people who show similar behavior who grow up in a 'good environment' and people who live in the same environment and don't resort to smoking whoonga.

i agree with this. we all have our demons and many of us came from shit neighborhoods. i feel sorry for them and hope that they can assemble some sort of strength to rise above that. it's difficult, but many of us have been through just as much. stuff like that either tears you down or makes you become more than you are imho

sad stuff really

[noam]

But are you going to say they all ended up the way they did because they're poor?

id put a pretty safe bet on being poor, being an almost overwhelming contributing factor

in the same way, if you went to a slum say in mumbai, or a favela in sao paolo, or a slum in joburg, and you found that most people there were uneducated, would you call them stupid because they haven't become educated?

obviously its a dumb thing to do to smoke poison, but the fact really is that wealth and social conditions have an overwhelming influence on peoples lives especially in such extreme circumstances as the level of poverty lots of those kids will have experienced

when poverty is that bad, you are SEVERELY limited in what your options are, even down to knowing that there ARE other options for you out there, despite your circumstance

im not excusing it btw either, i agree that its not something which is justifiable... but thats the wrong way to look at it, like Svpreme said, the action can be judged, but the conditions for judgement just seem wrong, i duno...

we all have our demons and many of us came from shit neighborhoods. it's difficult, but many of us have been through just as much. stuff like that either tears you down or makes you become more than you are

disagree so strongly

you cannot compare your life with that of a street kid in a south african slum...

ridiculous comparison

for a start they have RACE as a contributing factor in how they will grow up, secondly they have mass epidemic of AIDS, thirdly the options for where you can rise to and avenues you can go about to getting there must be so much more limited than say, growing up poor in Seattle or wherever you grew up

dont mean to have a go at you at all so please dont take it like that, just dont see how as a N. American you can pretend to know the struggles of a S. African slum kid??

[Genevieve]

But are you going to say they all ended up the way they did because they're poor?

Not at all, I realize I myself brought up the money angle in one of my posts mocking bass hertz, but it was more inspired by the misguided notion that these people must be choosing this dangerous new drug over others because they were legitimately inclined to do it (out of stupidity or whateva), and not because it's cheap, powerful and widely available.

Furthermore, I don't think you can really expect the kind of drug awareness that we have here in the West in other places. There's a reason why my parents think weed is just as dangerous as cocaine. lawl

Of course, I'm not saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE for people in such places to be aware of the differences in addiction potential between drugs and the harm they do...it's just very likely that most of the people who get into this kind of shit weren't educated about it to begin with.

I know, but we aren't talking about heroin or cocaine here. Judging from the fact that users target HIV infected people here, it looks like they're aware of the ingredients, among them being rat poison. And even if you haven't tried it, word will spread within urban communities what is in there after it's been around for a little while.

I have sympathy for them and I have empathy for them. The video did break my heart at times. My problem here is people saying it's all environment and that's simply not the case. I think it's as much of a generalization as Butt Jolokia's post.

[flyingointment]

Really weird how Butt Jolo feels any sympathy for HIV patients, because his logic is of the ''well, you never should have opened your legs'' sort.

That's not the same at all.

I think it's a fairly valid notion, even if it was said mainly in jest, we're talking about a dude who thinks rape and tsecni victims should be forced to birth the kids of their attackers.

Doesn't exactly seem like the extremely understanding type.

[Pedro Sánchez]

id put a pretty safe bet on being poor, being an almost overwhelming contributing factor

So would I, the statistics from any source on this matter speak for themselves.

[LACE]

Really weird how Butt Jolo feels any sympathy for HIV patients, because his logic is of the ''well, you never should have opened your legs'' sort.

That's not the same at all.

I think it's a fairly valid notion, even if it was said mainly in jest, we're talking about a dude who thinks rape and tsecni victims should be forced to birth the kids of their attackers.

Doesn't exactly seem like the extremely understanding type.

@therapist with what I said in jest..being his ACTUAL argument under those circumstances.
again i'm cornloling.

[NRHc]

ok seriously,i know that the OP was wrong to call them dumb fuckers,but you can't blame everything on the environnment or other shit...it's not all africans who are drug addicts..somewhere in their life,THEY made the choice to start using drugs,and stealing them from HIV patients is just wrong..smoke crack or shit i don't care but going to steal HIV meds only to smoke it and be high is extremely selfish and idiot.

[the acid never lies]

People's frames of reference are completely out of whack. In Peru where I'm from, depending on where you are born and what colour your skin is, your prospects are minimal. There is practically an informal apartheid. This isn't to say that everyone is on drugs, but given what a lot of people are born into, I am not surprised people are prepared to love life only looking forward to the next hit. People here say they understand the extent to which your background affects your prospects and expextations. It is quite clear they really don't. This doesn't seem to compute with people whose only reaction is moralism and appeals to personal responsibility. Their snipes are not a help but a fetter to making the changes necessary to make sure this is less common than it is. Yeah these people are making stupid decisions, frankly my anger is more directed at the people responsible for maintaining these poor suckers in a state of privation and barbarism.

[Kodachrome]

your opinion is your own given. however, you are a tnuc for ignoring circumstances that are different from your own. again your small amount of cognitive use to deduct a real open minded conclusion is right smack dab in line with authoritarian thought.

Ignoring what circumstances? By your logic, the dealers, hiv patients, and the addicts should just run their natural course of blood-thirty destruction of each other?

how im interpreting your original post is that you are calling them dumb because they are partaking in a drug that you have not been part of, and you are making a judgment on this afflicted population that they are ALL dumb, like a stereotype. you do not know where they were born, or what kind of SES they were born into, or what their lives entailed. they are not dumb, they might have experienced hardship because of their SES, making their risk factor of drug abuse greater. to call them dumb for making the choice of doing this drug is wrong, because despite your absolutist views, its not as black and white as you think-- all types of people no matter what race, creed, or socioeconomic status they fall into do drugs and make shit decisions. yes, they are more susceptible to do it, but they are not dumb. you should have an attitude to want to help fight against WHY their society accepts the usage of these types of drugs.

dumb fuckers do things like.. smoke rat poison.

You are way too angry about this you sad, sad little man. Rather than do something to help this poor afflicted culture you sit here on the forums and pass judgment, screaming profanities and calling them dumb.

The cycle of abuse will continue as long as idiots like you exist.

[pkay]

I know, but we aren't talking about heroin or cocaine here.

the addicting component in this drug is opiates added to the compound, often times heroin

read up on the subject outside of this one video

[Genevieve]

I know, but we aren't talking about heroin or cocaine here.

the addicting component in this drug is opiates added to the compound, often times heroin

read up on the subject outside of this one video

That's really avoiding my point and you know this.

[pkay]

did any of you bother to read up on this after watching the video? or is this video your sole base of knowledge?


Whoonga = Heroin plane and simple

a lot of the 'robbing hiv patients of medicines" are boogy man tactics and the drugs contain no ARV's

http://medilinkz.org/south-africa/33689 ... perts.html

Instant experts need to at least use some fucking google

Media in South Africa recently erupted into a frenzy of coverage of an allegedly new illegal drug, 'whoonga', said to contain life-prolonging antiretrovirals (ARVs), but experts say the drug is actually an old foe, heroin, and does not include ARVs. JOHANNESBURG, 10 February 2011 (PLUSNEWS) - Media in South Africa recently erupted into a frenzy of coverage of an allegedly new illegal drug, 'whoonga', said to contain life-prolonging antiretrovirals (ARVs), but experts say the drug is actually an old foe, heroin, and does not include ARVs.

The South African AIDS lobby group, the Treatment Action Campaign (TAC), has expressed concern that misreporting in the media may fuel a craze of its own and put HIV patients and ARV drug stocks in jeopardy.

Traditionally, the term 'whoonga' in South Africa referred to low grade heroin, which was often mixed with substances like rat poison and detergent to increase its volume prior to sale. Recent media reports have alleged that 'whoonga' now contains crushed ARVs and that the use of the combination of heroin and HIV treatment is widespread among the country's townships, particularly those surrounding the port city of Durban in South Africa's KwaZulu-Natal Province.

Don't believe the hype

While Anwar Jeewa, director of the Durban-based drug rehabilitation centre, Minds Alive, said a small percentage of drug users may indeed be crushing and smoking ARVs, tests conducted by the centre and by staff from South Africa's University of KwaZulu-Natal (UKZN) have found no traces of the life-saving drugs in 'whoonga' samples.

Jeewa collected and tested six 'whoonga' samples from six different Durban townships, while Thavendran Govender, with UKZN's School of Pharmacy and Pharmacology, tested a further two samples for the South African investigative TV journalism programme Carte Blanche. None of the eight samples were found to include ARVs.

Vumami Gwala, coordinator for the small, Durban-based project, Whoonga Free, says not only are there no ARVs in 'whoonga' but that most people who do crush and smoke ARVs do so because they cannot afford 'whoonga' itself.

ARV smokers themselves remain a minority of drug users, according to Jeewa, who added that those who can afford 'whoonga' may have been led to believe they were buying ARV-laced heroin by dealers or by the media's recent misreporting.

"When [addicts] buy their drugs from dealers, it's not ARVs but they are not sure themselves whether they are smoking heroin or ARVs," he told IRIN/PlusNews. "The people who are smoking ARVs are a very small minority group, I would say not more than 5 percent of drug users."

The effects of smoking ARVs remain doubtful; according to UKZN's Govender, drugs like ARVs are more easily absorbed into the body when taken orally rather than when smoked.

When taken orally, the ARV Efavirenz does have initial side-effects including dizziness, double vision and vivid dreams, effects that have fuelled abuse of the drug in pill form in prisons. But Andy Gray, a senior lecturer at UKZN's department of therapeutics and medicines management, says it is unlikely smoking the drug would produce the same effects.

"'Whoonga' is a drug problem that has already been here for years and we really need to debunk this myth that it contains ARVs," he said.

New name, same drug

According to Jeewa, 'whoonga' was previously known as "sugars" in South Africa, a name short for the internationally better-known term for low-grade heroin, "brown sugar". The drug eventually became known by the name 'whoonga', which anecdotal evidence suggests is Tanzanian; Tanzania is an entry point for heroin into Africa. [ http://www.plusnews.org/InDepthMain.asp ... ountry=Yes ]

But Jeewa said making people think ARVs are a good high - coupled with a new name for "sugars" - may be all part of the game; he likened it to rebranding and repackaging a product in order to boost sales.

It is the kind of marketing ploy that feeds into the minds of addicts, according to Shamin Garda, national executive director of the South African National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence.

"What happens with most addicts is that they feel the more they put into [their drugs], the better effect they have," she told IRIN/PlusNews. "If there's not even an effect [that comes with smoking ARVs], we need to educate them about the fact that it's not doing anything for them."

"The fact that they are using heroin and 'dagga' [marijuana]... those are the dependency-producing drugs and that's what we should be focusing on," she added.

With all the claims about ARVs' inclusion in 'whoonga' and not a lot of evidence to back them up, Caroline Nenguke, spokesperson for TAC, says the issue may create a dangerous situation for ARV patients and endanger drug stocks.

Incidents of ARV theft have been reported and the Department of Health has speculated that those behind some of these incidents may have intended to sell the drugs for recreational use. Nenguke says there are fears that continuing to incorrectly link ARVs to 'whoonga' could fuel more ARV thefts.

"We think that [the media] are actually driving the problem," she told IRIN/PlusNews. "The more people say 'whoonga' contains ARVs, the more drug pedlars will start trying to push it when it doesn't work at all."

[therapist]

This place is so funny/weird.