Dj'ing Dubstep with Midi Control (ableton)

xrylex · Post by **xrylex** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:37 am

i dj with ableton...

all the guys saying "dont bother" or "just get traktor" or "just trigger clips" are all missing the point.
launching a bunch of clips that you have cut up from tracks, or doing the deadmau5 approach with your own tracks are not dj'ing. thats def more on the live PA tip.

if you want to dj with ableton.. esp dubstep/bass music.. get the ill gates template. i cant recommend it enough

my set up:
Macbookpro
M-Audio Firewire 410 (3 stereo connections to 3 channels on the dj mixer)
Trigger Finger

and i have a heavily modified version of the ill-gates template. totally worth the $50!! He has spent years tweaking all of the mappings and ins and outs of dj'ing with ableton... he knows his stuff. saved me probably months worth of work.. i initially started from scratch and then found his template about a month into to programming my own, totally changed my approach. now i have a bad ass custom version that has 8 pads mapped to custom stutter edit gestures, pads to trigger tracks on each channel, pads with punch in effects, plus hi/pass + low/pass filters for each channel, a multi fx rack with all custom racks effects for each channel, plus delay and tempo controls. and i feel like im just getting started with what i can build.

anyway, if you dont have a soundcard with multiple stereo outs then you are stuck doing single stereo out into a single stereo channel on the dj mixer. thats fine, alot of people have things set up that way. as far as not needed headphones.. yeah if you dont have em i guess you are gonna learn without them anyway so you can def get away with not using them. ive been dj'ing forever tho and not listening to what im cue'ing seems retarded to me so i use em..

so get your controller mapped out, warp your tracks, start mixing. the rest is trial and error.

holler if you have specific questions, happy to help. (and ignore people telling you to get traktor, thats a totally diff ballgame) if you dig live and feel that you can learn to dj with it, then expand on the basics into something bigger and badder.. then by all means man, go rock that shit.

blinx · Post by **blinx** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:43 pm

^^^^^ w0rd!!! and the ill gates stuff is like ableton live gold! Dylan is a cool cat!

blinx · Post by **blinx** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:59 pm

Ableton is as limitless as you allow yourself to become, it will only hold you back if you allow it too! But this can be true about most modern daws and djing setups.

Djs used to mix on way "clunkier" equipment back in the day, even using reel to reel and tape edits and shit lol.... we better let them know they suck!!!! and should have learned the real art of djing on pioneer cdj's damn it!!!

RandoRando · Post by **RandoRando** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:35 pm

damn i wanna get abelton. anyone go from 6 years FL user to ableton? lol

blinx · Post by **blinx** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:52 pm

i started in fl, but that shit was not what i needed in a daw.

Was cool that they came with like timbaland tracks recreated in FL though lol R.I.P ashanti

promo · Post by **promo** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:44 pm

I use an Evolution UC33 controller with Ableton. I have 2 audio channels in Live in the session view and use my controller to control eq, volume, fx and of course the ability to cut/mute a track. I absolutely prepare my sets but that means you know what you're doing and when you're doing it. However it is all mixed live that is all the eqing, fades, fx, cuts and other mixing techniques. I too have just dj'd on the fly with Ableton but you obviously need to know what you're mixing together is going to work. Preparation is very important. If not then you need to spend a long time mixing tracks together to know where your cue points need to be etc. As others have said there is a lot you can do in live. The only thing I find annoying is that you can't do spinbacks/rewinds but aside from that Ableton is a great tool for djing.

theofficialcityboy · Post by **theofficialcityboy** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:02 am

Thanks for all of the tips. I am still currently waiting for my mpd to get in, but once it does I am sure I will hit everyone up with more questions.
I think I am going for a set up similar to that of xrylex's and blinx's. The ill gates template seems like a great place to start.

xrylex · Post by **xrylex** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:02 am

theofficialcityboy wrote:Thanks for all of the tips. I am still currently waiting for my mpd to get in, but once it does I am sure I will hit everyone up with more questions.
I think I am going for a set up similar to that of xrylex's and blinx's. The ill gates template seems like a great place to start.

right on man.

dylan (ill gates) is an awesome dude that has put a ton of hard work/love/and sweat into building this template. him and bassnectar both rock the shit out of their live sets because of that template and how creative you can be with it. btw, what skrillex uses is a very stripped down but very very very similar set up.

def let me know what questions you have once you get going. there is a learning curve/ramp up period to get your head around the set up, but its really a fun process to learn.

theofficialcityboy · Post by **theofficialcityboy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:41 am

I thought this was a little interesting. It's a similar set up to what I was talking about earlier.
Not really sure what he is doing, but I think he is going for the virtual deck mixing concept.
I realize this is a terrible example of dj'ing, but I think you should consider everyone's style when trying to figure out your own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvDmjc16ysA

xrylex · Post by **xrylex** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:54 am

ill tell you exactly whats going on in the video, how sonny has his set up, and what the difference is between that and the illgates version.

skrillex set up:
- one stereo channel plugged into the dj mixer.
this means he doesnt use the crossfader or level faders at all on the dj mixer, he occasionally uses the built in mixer fx, and also has a mic plugged into it.

- "global" FX set up in ableton.
this means that regardless of which track/which "deck" in ableton any FX applied will effect the master output of his set up.

ill gates setup:
- 2 stereo connections plugged into the dj mixer.
this allows for more traditional dj use of the mixer, including cross fader and level faders.

- left/right FX set up in ableton.
dual set ups of effects to control the FX on left deck or right deck independently. there are no effects global FX or FX on the master output.

whats going in the video is using knob activated FX on the trigger finger, beatrepeat grid/repeat settings on the top left knob (knob #1), filter/multi fx on the knob 2nd from the right on the bottom (knob #7). he also has his channel's level faders in ableton mapped to knobs as well, so he doesnt have to touch the dj mixer at any point unless he wants to use the pioneer effects. i actually really like this set up as its quick and simple. however ive been dj'ing traditionally for many years so i really wanted my set up to make use of the dj mixer as much as possible.

as far as "terrible example of dj'ing" and all the shit people talk about "skrillex is a terrible dj" or whatever.. thats bullshit. he is a solid dj, and rocks the shit out of every crowd he plays for... people just need to realize that mixing with ableton can be very different than dj'ing traditionally depending on choices you make.

and i think people dont like his heavy use of FX and mistakenly critique his "dj'ing" instead.

david nicol · Post by **david nicol** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:51 am

I think that skrillex (and when I've seen deadmau5 to a certain extent) get carried away with the midi FX because the set is premixed. If you are bored behind the decks I'm sure you will try to enhance the showmanship a little.

ErotiCore SteNch · Post by **ErotiCore SteNch** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:44 pm

try looking into what big chocolate do for his livesetup

ErotiCore SteNch · Post by **ErotiCore SteNch** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:46 pm

btw can anyone recommend a small cheap dj style mixer if i want to do something like big chocolate is doing live??

theofficialcityboy · Post by **theofficialcityboy** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:48 am

Hey guys. I got the mpd in a few days ago and have been playing around quite a bit.
I'm curious if any of you could offer some input on how you organize your pads and tracks in order to cue them?
Do you guys just place each cue point on it's own pad and memorize them?
Also, any tips with the ableton beat repeat would be helpful. I have been playing around with it, but I would like to know how some of you implement it into your sets.
Take care.

khamiz · Post by **khamiz** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:36 pm

How do people use the EQ in Ableton to DJ? The three channel EQ doesn't quite work for me and I found a plug in made by LSS that had 0 DB in the middle, but it didn't install properly. Any suggestions?

xrylex · Post by **xrylex** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:20 pm

ErotiCore SteNch wrote:try looking into what big chocolate do for his livesetup

big chocolate has the exact set up that i do as described above. (with a different audio interface)

xrylex · Post by **xrylex** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:21 pm

khamiz wrote:How do people use the EQ in Ableton to DJ? The three channel EQ doesn't quite work for me and I found a plug in made by LSS that had 0 DB in the middle, but it didn't install properly. Any suggestions?

use the Eq8 the 3 band sucks.

xrylex · Post by **xrylex** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:22 pm

theofficialcityboy wrote:Hey guys. I got the mpd in a few days ago and have been playing around quite a bit.
I'm curious if any of you could offer some input on how you organize your pads and tracks in order to cue them?
Do you guys just place each cue point on it's own pad and memorize them?
Also, any tips with the ableton beat repeat would be helpful. I have been playing around with it, but I would like to know how some of you implement it into your sets.
Take care.

you are better off posting this or looking for info on the ableton forums.
start here:
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=114129

xrylex · Post by **xrylex** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:23 pm

david nicol wrote:I think that skrillex (and when I've seen deadmau5 to a certain extent) get carried away with the midi FX because the set is premixed. If you are bored behind the decks I'm sure you will try to enhance the showmanship a little.

skrillex is not premixed, what deadmau5 and skrillex do are about as different as you can get with ableton set ups.

Hexodus · Post by **Hexodus** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:50 pm

^what he said.

Yes, they are both 'premixed', but def not the same style. Skrillex's setup is straight linear to provide maximum knob twiddlage and cigarette smoking. Mau5's setup however is quite complex and nonlinear, requiring him to stay pretty busy with his mix and launches, and less time maxing out FX.

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