UK riots

[JBoy]

The student riots were just as pathetic, i know its expensive etc but half of uni applicants will have it all payed for by mummy and daddy and the other half will pay a fiver of there student loan back a week so by the time they die it still wont have been payed, so whats the big drama?

shut up you fassy you don't know shit about shit

Its called being realistic thats all.

[Mr Hyde]

The positives that come out of this stuff? These events reaffirm the populace's belief that if we are truly not happy about something, then we can quickly start tearing shit up and make a real point. Noone remembers some pussy who campaigned with a little banner. Everyone remembers that guy who threw a fucking fire extinguisher off the roof during the student riots though. Get my point?

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm sure in 20 years they'll be building monuments to dumbass who through fire extinguisher. When people visit England it will be a landmark tourists will come visit. There will be a small portion of a stone building with a student hurling a fire extinguisher.... the plaque will read "in the early 21st century during a student riot this guy through a fire extinguisher off a roof"

are you fucking joking? No ones going to remember that dumbass

History remembers those who brought about actual change.... and change is never done the easy way. If a riot actually changed anything in the government, people would riot daily. It doesn't. History remembers those who took the hard route. Those who suffered for what they believe in. The civil rights marches, Tianeman square, Iranian Revolution, The Monday Demonstrations, history remembers this... not fire extinguisher guy.

Not really, pretty much every country and its government and society has been founded on violence, the USA wouldn't be what it is today without war of independence and the civil war. Perhaps Tianeman square would have worked if more people got behind the protesters and been violent towards the government.

Fair enough, peaceful protest also makes some changes sometimes if it can sway the opinion of the leaders, but it often gets ignored until you can get stuff like the million man march and they get worried about losing votes......but you also can't write off violent protest as being useless- its definitely works.

[gage]

jd is such a victim

[JBoy]

News24: what the fuck are the police doing? Letting their vehicles get battered, dont they know how to deal with a shitty little riot lol.

[pkay]

The positives that come out of this stuff? These events reaffirm the populace's belief that if we are truly not happy about something, then we can quickly start tearing shit up and make a real point. Noone remembers some pussy who campaigned with a little banner. Everyone remembers that guy who threw a fucking fire extinguisher off the roof during the student riots though. Get my point?

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm sure in 20 years they'll be building monuments to dumbass who through fire extinguisher. When people visit England it will be a landmark tourists will come visit. There will be a small portion of a stone building with a student hurling a fire extinguisher.... the plaque will read "in the early 21st century during a student riot this guy through a fire extinguisher off a roof"

are you fucking joking? No ones going to remember that dumbass

History remembers those who brought about actual change.... and change is never done the easy way. If a riot actually changed anything in the government, people would riot daily. It doesn't. History remembers those who took the hard route. Those who suffered for what they believe in. The civil rights marches, Tianeman square, Iranian Revolution, The Monday Demonstrations, history remembers this... not fire extinguisher guy.

Not really, pretty much every country and its government and society has been founded on violence, the USA wouldn't be what it is today without war of independence and the civil war. Perhaps Tianeman square would have worked if more people got behind the protesters and been violent towards the government.

Fair enough, peaceful protest also makes some changes sometimes if it can sway the opinion of the leaders, but it often gets ignored until you can get stuff like the million man march and they get worried about losing votes......but you also can't write off violent protest as being useless- its definitely works.

Violence only works if you're seeking a revolution. Seeking change and seeking a revolution are two entirely different things.

I think most brits would agree that they enjoy a life better than 90% of people on the planet earth yes? You don't want a revolution in your country. You don't want to destroy your public care systems, you don't want to get rid of nationalized health care, you don't want to get rid of the portions of government that function in a proper way. You are wanting change within the current structure and therefor your approach should be entirely different.

The US revolution was just that. A revolution. We wanted to entirely breakdown the british governing of our colonies and start a government in contrast to the previous government. We wanted nothing to do with the existing system. Two completely different scenarios.

If you want to seek change within an established government, you must abide by that governments rules and use the avenues given to you to produce change. If you want a revolution then fucking revolt. But I find a hard time believing that in 2011 the civilian sector of the UK is ready to sacrifice their lives for this cause.

[HamCrescendo]

hahaha people saying theres planned riots in harrow and brent now.

cant really see that happening.


draw for the bally, loot sams chicken

[hugh]

The positives that come out of this stuff? These events reaffirm the populace's belief that if we are truly not happy about something, then we can quickly start tearing shit up and make a real point. Noone remembers some pussy who campaigned with a little banner. Everyone remembers that guy who threw a fucking fire extinguisher off the roof during the student riots though. Get my point?

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm sure in 20 years they'll be building monuments to dumbass who through fire extinguisher. When people visit England it will be a landmark tourists will come visit. There will be a small portion of a stone building with a student hurling a fire extinguisher.... the plaque will read "in the early 21st century during a student riot this guy through a fire extinguisher off a roof"

are you fucking joking? No ones going to remember that dumbass

History remembers those who brought about actual change.... and change is never done the easy way. If a riot actually changed anything in the government, people would riot daily. It doesn't. History remembers those who took the hard route. Those who suffered for what they believe in. The civil rights marches, Tianeman square, Iranian Revolution, The Monday Demonstrations, history remembers this... not fire extinguisher guy.

I don't think you get the point I am making at all. I am talking about creating momentum for something greater. In those instances, action ALWAYS grabs more attention and speaks louder than words. I repeat myself that I am NOT condoning violence or hooliganism, but it IS a way to grab attention and create a vibe in a quick way.
And yes, everyone does remember fire extinguisher guy. You aren't even from the UK (are you?) and you instantly know who and what I am talking about. Fire extinguisher kid is a retard. Fire extinguisher kid is also a complete patsy. I am not saying he will be remembered in the annals of history.

Quite clearly though, our democracy doesn't work as it should. People voted for one thing and got another. The student protests, I believe, were extremely calm considering what had happened. The government should NEVER be allowed to lie bare-faced like that and if they flip on policy to such an extent it means our votes mean nothing and we have no voice. I think violence against the state, and reaming against the companies that are represented by lobbyists who have such a huge influence on political and economic policy is totally justifiable.

Also JBoy you are chatting absolute shite and clearly have no clue. I know for a fact that almost everyone in my classes at uni comes from at best a middle-working class background, and certainly not the sort that can have it all paid for by mummy and daddy. Most people I know at uni actually really struggle for money (genuinely, not the sort of struggling that your alienable mind would come up with, such as struggling to afford a 20 deck of tabs every day).

Also you clearly don't understand how the variable repayments work on student loans so I would stop chatting shit about that too.

[Neptune]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... field.html

[pkay]

Every university student in the world struggles.

Eat your ramen noodles and quit fucking crying

[clifford_-]

kicking off in lewisham!

[JBoy]

Every university student in the world struggles.

Eat your ramen noodles and quit fucking crying

At the end of the day they choose to go to uni, so paying for it comes with that. Could be worse, they could actually have to work for their money.

[pkay]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... field.html

that's really kinda sad to be honest.

[pkay]

Every university student in the world struggles.

Eat your ramen noodles and quit fucking crying

At the end of the day they choose to go to uni, so paying for it comes with that. Could be worse, they could actually have to work for their money.

agreed... I had to pay for every penny of my six figure education. I really have no sympathy for anyone complaining about school costs. Go do manual labor during the summers and save up your cash. Keeps you fit for the ladies during the school year anywho.

[Mr Hyde]

I think most brits would agree that they enjoy a life better than 90% of people on the planet earth yes? You don't want a revolution in your country. You don't want to destroy your public care systems, you don't want to get rid of nationalized health care, you don't want to get rid of the portions of government that function in a proper way. You are wanting change within the current structure and therefor your approach should be entirely different.

The US revolution was just that. A revolution. We wanted to entirely breakdown the british governing of our colonies and start a government in contrast to the previous government. We wanted nothing to do with the existing system. Two completely different scenarios.

If you want to seek change within an established government, you must abide by that governments rules and use the avenues given to you to produce change. If you want a revolution then fucking revolt. But I find a hard time believing that in 2011 the civilian sector of the UK is ready to sacrifice their lives for this cause.

Fair play, well said. Although I still think there is a place for violent protest to seek change in an existing government, if you have to play by the rules to have any change then any government can just change the rules to stop you making changes they don't want.

[scspkr99]

I haven't read the whole thread as it's moved a bit quick but any comment from London's esteemed mayor yet?

[hugh]

The positives that come out of this stuff? These events reaffirm the populace's belief that if we are truly not happy about something, then we can quickly start tearing shit up and make a real point. Noone remembers some pussy who campaigned with a little banner. Everyone remembers that guy who threw a fucking fire extinguisher off the roof during the student riots though. Get my point?

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'm sure in 20 years they'll be building monuments to dumbass who through fire extinguisher. When people visit England it will be a landmark tourists will come visit. There will be a small portion of a stone building with a student hurling a fire extinguisher.... the plaque will read "in the early 21st century during a student riot this guy through a fire extinguisher off a roof"

are you fucking joking? No ones going to remember that dumbass

History remembers those who brought about actual change.... and change is never done the easy way. If a riot actually changed anything in the government, people would riot daily. It doesn't. History remembers those who took the hard route. Those who suffered for what they believe in. The civil rights marches, Tianeman square, Iranian Revolution, The Monday Demonstrations, history remembers this... not fire extinguisher guy.

Not really, pretty much every country and its government and society has been founded on violence, the USA wouldn't be what it is today without war of independence and the civil war. Perhaps Tianeman square would have worked if more people got behind the protesters and been violent towards the government.

Fair enough, peaceful protest also makes some changes sometimes if it can sway the opinion of the leaders, but it often gets ignored until you can get stuff like the million man march and they get worried about losing votes......but you also can't write off violent protest as being useless- its definitely works.

Violence only works if you're seeking a revolution. Seeking change and seeking a revolution are two entirely different things.

I think most brits would agree that they enjoy a life better than 90% of people on the planet earth yes? You don't want a revolution in your country. You don't want to destroy your public care systems, you don't want to get rid of nationalized health care, you don't want to get rid of the portions of government that function in a proper way. You are wanting change within the current structure and therefor your approach should be entirely different.

The US revolution was just that. A revolution. We wanted to entirely breakdown the british governing of our colonies and start a government in contrast to the previous government. We wanted nothing to do with the existing system. Two completely different scenarios.

If you want to seek change within an established government, you must abide by that governments rules and use the avenues given to you to produce change. If you want a revolution then fucking revolt. But I find a hard time believing that in 2011 the civilian sector of the UK is ready to sacrifice their lives for this cause.

I'm sorry but blanket statements like "violence only works for revolution but not change" are not correct. I don't know what gives you the authority to make a statement like that but I think you would struggle against any proper historian in making it stand.
And I certainly wouldn't say that Brits enjoy life more than 90% of the world. I would say that Brits that do say and think that are a bit ignorant and don't really understand what brings happiness. Go anywhere around the Mediterranean, anywhere around pretty much any tropical country in the world, anywhere where a 9-5 office job is not the done thing, and you will instantly see that people are of at least similar happiness of not happier.
Also, as a final point, making decisions on the way our own country is run should NEVER be drawn in comparison to other countries. It simply doesn't work to make political objectivism a relative thing. It has to be absolute and work under its' own merits, not the merits of other nations. So that whole 90% thing is irrelevant anyway.

"Go and do manual labour all summer."
Fucking laughable mate, theres no jobs, most companies are shrinking and laying people off and those they take on will have proper experience. I think you live in a different world to me. One where there are endless opportunities and where anything can be achieved just if you only try hard enough!
nah pal it doesn't work like that over here.

[clifford_-]

I haven't read the whole thread as it's moved a bit quick but any comment from London's esteemed mayor yet?

hes on his way back from holiday.

i reckon itll kick off in wales next, you can blame all this on thatcher.

[cityzen]

you can blame all this on thatcher.

[scspkr99]

i reckon itll kick off in wales next, you can blame all this on thatcher.

I do :thumbs:

[clifford_-]

you can blame all this on thatcher.

glad some people in this thread know the score.