how to clearly define kick, to not sound like house??

[certifiedhumane]

hey i am new to producing dubstep, aspiring producer here. i notice with this track i am working on, when i filter it down all the way it just sounds like a really fast, tacky house or techno track, as in theres a kick on every beat, 4 to the floor . . how do you clearly define and separate the kick and snare so it sounds dubstep . . ??
it's really hard to explain in words because it's musical, however i notice while there IS a snare on beat 3 and kicks on beat 1 2 3 4 it still sounds like a sped-up techno song which equals = not good quality sounding. . are there any special tricks in producing to make it clear that the song is actually dubstep??

i am working with reason and logic and omnisphere! thank you

[Electric_Head]

don`t use a 4x4 beat if that`s the issue.
Write in half time.

[Efrafa11]

Well if I am understanding you correctly, you are still doing a Four to the floor beat. In dubstep you generally have a half time beat. Kick on the 1 and a snare on the 3, If your are going for the generic dubstep beat.

[jrisreal]

yup, do that...and add more kick and more snare and some hats and get a real beat going. nobody likes the generic "kick - snare - kick kick - snare" beats

[certifiedhumane]

oh crap i forgot about that. for example i heard (without really looking into it) that dubstep is between 130-140 bpm so my track is around 135 with kicks on 1 2 3 4 and a snare on 3, how would i make this half-time? that means i change the actual note value time signature right? as in the 4/4 ?? sorry guys like i said i am not your typical dubstep guy i am just getting into it after coming from the house/deep house area . .

[Efrafa11]

Just leave your kick off of two and four and start working with 8th and 16th notes and fill in your beat...

[certifiedhumane]

wow i am really dull with this half-time stuff. i am trying to achieve the same kind of sound as the track fighting fire by breakage the dubstep version, i am into house-y dubstep, if that helps any of you understand where i am trying to go with this . . . would i change the time signature for the notes or something?? what if i wanted to keep the kick on all 4 like fighting fire but still sound half-time? is it possible? sorry guys the half-time stuff is confusing for me i am looking it up on wikipedia for example but nothing says how to actually go about using it?

[hifi]

not as complicated as you think. just a kick on 1 and snare on 3.

[certifiedhumane]

ok thank you hypefiend (and everyone else) so what if id like to keep the kick on all 4 like breakage's fighting fire do i need to change any note values?

[hifi]

ok thank you hypefiend (and everyone else) so what if id like to keep the kick on all 4 like breakage's fighting fire do i need to change any note values?

no, what that would do is your track would seem a little faster with that 4todafloor beat.

[Efrafa11]

No, just..... Kick on 1,2, and 4... snare alone on 3... Leading up to that is a regular kick on each beat like you were doing, but when you incorporate the snare take the kick off the 3rd beat....

[certifiedhumane]

ok thanks guys seems to make more sense now. however i am still listening to breakage's fighting fire and it's just so smooth, he does the kick on 1 2 3 4 and the snare on 3 thru most of the song yet it doesn't sound as harsh as mine, when i filter mine down it sounds like a typical fast trance song or something, . . .

i don't get it, obviously his production skills are much greater than mine, yet i'd think i'd still be able to nail the beat part . .

[wormcode]

You can do 4x4 dubstep, there's a lot of great tunes like that. Komonazmuk - Bad Apple comes to mind. There's lots of them. Try to put emphasis on the downbeat, and adjust the velocities on some of the kicks. First kick should be deep, 2nd a bit lighter, and so on. Just find a balance/groove. Also try more than 1 kick sample. Try using lighter kicks with more top end, not 909 sounding ones although they can work fine too. In house/techno, most of the sub bass content comes from the kick. In dubstep, generally the kick sits around 100hz, with most of the weight below 70hz removed.

[grooki]

OP: I have just listened to the track, and I think I can imagine what your problem is.

Yes his track is 4x4 like house, with the snare on 3. The kick on the track is pretty light - the volume is not very loud, the pitch is a bit higher than most dubstep tracks, and it is highpassed a bit more than usual (as in a lot of the lower frequencies are taken out). This makes it much less prominent in the track. Notice when the track is at its maximum ( when the snare is going too), the kick is not like THUMP THUMP THUMP, it's a bit more subtle.

The other key thing which makes it sound dubsteppy is that there is a reversed cymbal than "sucks" into the snare. This makes the snare much more prominent, and gives a more half time feel to the beat. You could achieve a similar effect by varying the percussion between say the first half of the bar and second half of the bar.

[Sharmaji]

the key to that track-- as is the key to a ton of breakage's stuff-- is the superawesome shuffling percussion.

[certifiedhumane]

wormcode: hey man thank you. so the downbeat is the first and third or just one or the other? thanks for the advice awesome stuff in there

grooki: awesome stuff man i noticed that with the snare, definitely a unique type of reverb .

[skimpi]

well when you filter it down all you are going to hear is the kick and bass, so the elements making it seems half time will not be heard. but yeah as people said dont have a huge thumping techno kick, high pass that out and have a bassline for those sub frequencies.

[ChadDub]

I can't believe how people can have trouble with just setting up a step sequencer...

[nowaysj]

If you are having trouble making beats that you like:

Find a beat that you like, and analyze it. Figure out why it works. What about it tickles you.

Attempt to apply those aspects to a beat of your making.

Also here is a piece about strengthening your beats. It focuses on strengthening the pulse of your music.

[Ldizzy]

interesting tracks have been made on the 4x4 pattern that sound dubstepish... they just generally sound older..

remember dubstep comes from garage... and garage has a 4x4 heritage... heres a couple things id try :

shift the snares a little earlier... like a couple samples/milisecs only .. to give a separation effect... ull notice itll sound clearer with the slightest modification..

make the snares occupy the stereo field differently, like by making them wider (ensurr eits mono compatible) eg : snare in the middle but claps on the sides..

Make the snare long by layering some longer sounds eg claps on top of the snappy snare itself...

try different lenghts of snares... if a short one doesnt do.. try a long one...

i def hear a way to do this in my mind...

(think el-b, burial or some more experimental stuff that could be labled """"future garage"""")

but yeah, shift it a little see if it aint clearer...