Nature = God's Existence???

[noam]

A Muslim friend of mine told me that the fact we can generate matter/anti-matter in a vacuum proves Allah's existence.

It is Allah's will.

Lol, don't get me started on the whole Allah's/God's will thing. That is one cluster-fuck of an argument.

There is a difference between knowledge and belief.

Yep! (Please refer to my sig )

you sig is wrong though

[d-T-r]

i think the notion of believing in a universal higher order of things is more rewarding, and easier for more people to happily digest, than the concept of 'god as creator' ,beyond the universe manifesting its self.

mass distraction from seeing beauty is trying to analyze it too much. (or too little)

[butter_man]

my beliefs: that god is the unobtainable, the number up from the ever growing calculation of what infinity isnt. as the universe expands trying to fill in all possibilities trying to become infinity it continuously chases this unobtainable like a needy child after an unwanting mother. we are just the possibilities left in the wake of this. my apologies I havent slept and I think this shit all the time, it does lead me to the only healthy view point I can think about death apart from oblivion and that is: the expanse of time being unknown noone can determine or not wether we havent lived this before, like life itself is a lottery and the expanse of time so vast that it occurs again and again as the probability of it happening is not greater than the time 'time' itself has existed. you may say we know that the big bang happened and started the universe what we dont know is what was before that, the say that the universe gets so big that someday it will one day implode and then maybe shrink untill it cant shrink nomore and then another big bang. maybe? possibly? who the fuck knows? I dont.

[cityzen]

There is a difference between knowledge and belief.

Yep! (Please refer to my sig )

you sig is wrong though

[unwind]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy

I don't think there is a god, but i dont believe fundamentally that there isn't...
If there is a 'God', a 'God' that is/was capable of 'creating' the universe as we know it... It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it... Especially considering what we now know about the world, compared to what we did when religion began...

[clifford_-]

If you'd ever read HItchhikers Guide you'd know that mice run the entire universe.

42

[magma]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy

I don't think there is a god, but i dont believe fundamentally that there isn't...
If there is a 'God', a 'God' that is/was capable of 'creating' the universe as we know it... It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it... Especially considering what we now know about the world, compared to what we did when religion began...

[Ricky_Spanish]

Western and mid eastern religions have nothing whatsoever to do with god. Religion is for spiritually retarded people who have to be told how to live.

True spirituality imo has no textual description.

But to the op's question: yes, you can logically prove western and mid eastern religions to be false.

[2manynoobs]

There is no good or evil.. everything is just beauty. Most people just fail to see that.

[Shum]

There is no good or evil.. everything is just beauty. Most people just fail to see that.

[jrisreal]

It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it...

God doesn't send us to hell. We send ourselves to hell because of our evil actions and the evil desire within us. Mankind may look fine and friendly on the outside, but each and every one of us has evil deep down. What God did is offer an easy way out of our own destruction.

EDIT: Why am I even arguing? I guarantee I will be torn to shreds for this statement.

[Ricky_Spanish]

There is no good or evil.. everything is just beauty. Most people just fail to see that.

I think at the very, very, very least, (god knows how many) Africans, 6 million jews and 1,700,000–2,500,000 Cambodians would disagree.

Allthough I guess it can seem that way to middle-class european that has watched American Beauty, never missed a meal or seen his family hacked to death.

[noam]

It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it...

God doesn't send us to hell. We send ourselves to hell because of our evil actions and the evil desire within us. Mankind may look fine and friendly on the outside, but each and every one of us has evil deep down. What God did is offer an easy way out of our own destruction.

how about this right, when i die then, and im going to hell, sacrifice yourself for me so you go to hell, and so that i dont go to hell

DEAL?!?!?

[Ricky_Spanish]

It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it...

God doesn't send us to hell. We send ourselves to hell because of our evil actions and the evil desire within us. Mankind may look fine and friendly on the outside, but each and every one of us has evil deep down. What God did is offer an easy way out of our own destruction.

EDIT: Why am I even arguing? I guarantee I will be torn to shreds for this statement.

Why limit your spirituality to words and concepts written in a book 1000's of years ago by people who knew less about the world than a modern-day 8-year old?

Whatever religion you are is because of what your parents indoctrinated you into. It's no more profound than a regional accent.

[jrisreal]

It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it...

God doesn't send us to hell. We send ourselves to hell because of our evil actions and the evil desire within us. Mankind may look fine and friendly on the outside, but each and every one of us has evil deep down. What God did is offer an easy way out of our own destruction.

how about this right, when i die then, and im going to hell, sacrifice yourself for me so you go to hell, and so that i dont go to hell

DEAL?!?!?

I would, but I am no perfect being...if that were going to happen, even every single member of this forum combined wouldn't be able to add up...no offense.

and @Bringer that is false. Nobody made me be a Christian, most of my family is muslim, actually.

[noam]

It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it...

God doesn't send us to hell. We send ourselves to hell because of our evil actions and the evil desire within us. Mankind may look fine and friendly on the outside, but each and every one of us has evil deep down. What God did is offer an easy way out of our own destruction.

EDIT: Why am I even arguing? I guarantee I will be torn to shreds for this statement.

Why limit your spirituality to words and concepts written in a book 1000's of years ago by people who knew less about the world than a modern-day 8-year old?

Whatever religion you are is because of what your parents indoctrinated you into. It's no more profound than a regional accent.

ignorant

people 1000/2000/3000/4000 knew just as much about the world in a different way

people understand what they understand

we've progressed in what we've discovered but who's to say what we've lost by progressing

the foundations of modern life were laid millenia ago

we still study the philosophy of ancient greeks etc. not because its necessary but because it can still teach us about our world when we dont know better

dont forget, when we're born we know nothing, everything that has been learned before us and passed down is what we then learn, it isn't fair to say that they knew nothing, its a fallacy to think people of old were stupid

most people are stupid anyway, seriously, the older i get the more i realise how achingly dumb the majority of people are

[south3rn]

^ one of the most level-headed things posted on this forum.

[Ricky_Spanish]

It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it...

God doesn't send us to hell. We send ourselves to hell because of our evil actions and the evil desire within us. Mankind may look fine and friendly on the outside, but each and every one of us has evil deep down. What God did is offer an easy way out of our own destruction.

EDIT: Why am I even arguing? I guarantee I will be torn to shreds for this statement.

Why limit your spirituality to words and concepts written in a book 1000's of years ago by people who knew less about the world than a modern-day 8-year old?

Whatever religion you are is because of what your parents indoctrinated you into. It's no more profound than a regional accent.

ignorant

people 1000/2000/3000/4000 knew just as much about the world in a different way

people understand what they understand

we've progressed in what we've discovered but who's to say what we've lost by progressing

the foundations of modern life were laid millenia ago

we still study the philosophy of ancient greeks etc. not because its necessary but because it can still teach us about our world when we dont know better

dont forget, when we're born we know nothing, everything that has been learned before us and passed down is what we then learn, it isn't fair to say that they knew nothing, its a fallacy to think people of old were stupid

most people are stupid anyway, seriously, the older i get the more i realise how achingly dumb the majority of people are

I'm talking religon.Not mathematics or philosophy or anything else. So your entire post is directed at your own misapprehension.

I meant that all the western/mid eastern religions were written with old human paradigms.

The greeks belived GODS lived on Mars. An 8yr old knows that is not true.

Genesis, the garden of eden? God made the earth in 7 days. Notice how they did'nt mention the rest of the universe, perhaps because the person who wrote it never new about cosmology.

Tora - The earth is 2000 years old? Dinosours are a trick?
What about the 13.68 billion years before.

The Christians hung people who thought that the earth was not the centre of the universe. The same organisation who wrote the book you belive so dutifully.

[noam]

I'm talking religon.Not mathematics or philosophy or anything else. So your entire post is directed at your own misapprehension.

I meant that all the western/mid eastern religions were written with old human paradigms.

The greeks belived GODS lived on Mars. An 8yr old knows that is not true.

Genesis, the garden of eden? God made the earth in 7 days. Notice how they did'nt mention the rest of the universe, perhaps because the person who wrote it never new about cosmology.

Tora - The earth is 2000 years old? Dinosours are a trick?
What about the 13.68 billion years before.

The Christians hung people who thought that the earth was not the centre of the universe. The same organisation who wrote the book you belive so dutifully.

you think i misunderstood you??

wow... i think we got off on the wrong foot there, you must be new??

Hi im Smart, you're Dumb, nice to meet you

[Ricky_Spanish]

It surely cannot be the same God that sends its' creations to hell for not believing in it...

God doesn't send us to hell. We send ourselves to hell because of our evil actions and the evil desire within us. Mankind may look fine and friendly on the outside, but each and every one of us has evil deep down. What God did is offer an easy way out of our own destruction.

how about this right, when i die then, and im going to hell, sacrifice yourself for me so you go to hell, and so that i dont go to hell

DEAL?!?!?

and @Bringer that is false. Nobody made me be a Christian, most of my family is muslim, actually.

If that's true then you fall in about the 5% that differ from their parents. So what I said still stands.

I see you are from Nauru, Hmm, it seems the overwhelming majority are christian.