anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

[Kilo beats]

Sup guys

im having a bit of a copyright problem with my latest tune.

I used a sample of a piano from a popular goth band, actuley it was pretty much the whole melody. i used it for the intro for a tune (which i didnt change much) and for after the tune drops where i went crazy with it making it arpeggiated and added loads of distortion it it.

probley one of the best tunes i made so far, so i wanted it feature it on my first LP.

anyway, i finished the tune, and just out of curiosity/ to be on the safe side, i emailed the band and asked them if it was ok for me to use the sample. to which they replyed a with a quite nasty email telling me to remove the track from my soundcloud and never put it anywhere online again, or face a $150,000 fine. this was promiced to me by one of the band members unless i paid a $5000 licincing fee... i basicaly told em im skint and fuck that.

so now im stuck with a sick tune that i cant even give out for free..

anyway, ive heard nuff tunes where people sample bits from films, other artists, etc... for fuck sake even the amen break has been used by countless producers over the years.... so how do they not face fines, do they get permission? or pay the licincing fees?? i think not.

so is there a way round this? does anyone know enough about copyright & such to offer me some good advice?

im thinkin now i shouldent of even asked, and they would prob never be none the wiser.

Also my mate was on about something in the news a while back that make it ok for us in the UK to use samples & stuff found on youtube videos in our productions... i didnt see it and he cant remember esactly, does anyone kno anything about this??

[Kilo beats]

PS. i dont want to open the can-of-worms debate on the morals of sampling, as i know many people strongley disagree with sampling in any form. i simply want some advice.

if your on that high horse i suggest you keep riding.

[Gurnumsbug]

Why can't you give it out for free?
You're making no profit from it!
...

[jetpack]

I'm pretty sure, as long as it is non-for-profit, you can freely distribute other artists material. Pretty sure that's why rappers can release mixtapes of other artists beats.

[Kilo beats]

yeah? thats what i though.

but this band thinks diffrently. said they were gonna inform soundcloud and get my account shut down, which is why i took it down. i couldent care less about the fine.. coz im skint and they wouldent get a damn penny. its my soundcloud account im worried about

[Gurnumsbug]

Throw it on youtube, mediafire, & hulkshare... Why not man? It sure isn't soundcloud, but at least people can appreciate your work & you don't have to worry about some stupid band trying to shut you down

[Kilo beats]

nice one.. think i might do that actuley.

pointless keeping my tune to myself init.

shame thou, coz i had some good feedback on my soundcloud before i took it down.. and we could always use more good feedback on our soundclouds

[Gurnumsbug]

You should man! I would love to take a listen if you do decide to upp it!
Also another way you can bypass it, is by having a friend or having someone upload it in a mix of their's
Serious mate, you deserve to release a track you made!

[Mad_EP]

It's frustrating because you did the correct and stand-up thing to do... which is to be polite and ask...

Problem is, it is almost always easier to ask for forgiveness rather than for permission.


I've had some seriously stupid experiences in this arena... probably one of the worst was I was asked to do a legit remix of a metal band for a feature film. It wasn't paid, but I figured with it being backed by Sony and the rest of the soundtrack filled with famous electronic artists remixing metal bands, it would be worth the promo. Well, I did the remix - the band said they loved it... but their manager didn't get the legal paperwork to the film studio by the deadline so it had to be left off the soundtrack. I figured the least I was owed was to be allowed to use it on my own record, and instead I got a letter demanding thousands in licensing fees otherwise I would be sued. I was extremely angry - but I just let everything die down for several years so everyone forgot all about it... then I just released it on a free compilation.


I'd just do what everyone else has said - mediafire, sendspace, and other anonymous upload services.

[legend4ry]

Unless you commercially release the track without cleared samples, you cannot be taken to court over using a sample, fact!

With the track being online - its up to the licensors weather they allow your track to have an online presence via a streaming website or not (I.E the record label or the band but who this is depends on their contract).


Don't be scared; you'll just have to give it out free or record the piano yourself, note for note and switch a note or two.



p.s - concerning your mate who read that article; again it depends on which legal act the track/album/band is binded too; if they're (for instance) Dutch, they will be binded by Dutch copyright law and you will be sued by the international Dutch courts (which means they can sue people who are not in Holland via dutch law if you infringe something to do with a matter in that country).

You really do have to be careful with sample clearing these days as there is no "one" law.

[Karoshi]

Id be so pissed off if someone spoke to me like that after having the courtesy of asking politely instead of just using it without permission.

Id put it on as many sites as possible for free download and email them all the links just in spite. probably paying with fire that though haha.

[arktrix45hz]

Id put it on as many sites as possible for free download and email them all the links just in spite. probably paying with fire that though haha.

Or he could be an adult, take the hit and scrap it or re-record the part for himself.

[Mad_EP]

Don't be scared; you'll just have to give it out free or record the piano yourself, note for note and switch a note or two.

^^^
I forgot about this option - re-record the piano bits yourself. I've had friends do that when they had a big commercial release that they didn't want to have to sample clear. The original track had samples, the track got signed, they re-recorded the sampled bits.

[legend4ry]

Don't be scared; you'll just have to give it out free or record the piano yourself, note for note and switch a note or two.

^^^
I forgot about this option - re-record the piano bits yourself. I've had friends do that when they had a big commercial release that they didn't want to have to sample clear. The original track had samples, the track got signed, they re-recorded the sampled bits.

Indeed!

When speaking in notation purposes, its usually the final master which has been copyrighted not the actual sequence of notes them self.

With vocal its a bit different (as a lot of singers lyrics get copyrighted separately if the label can afford it) but there is companies out there who you can hire to sing popular songs and they pick singers out of their roster who has the closest they can get to the original artists but again; people have been known to be sued from this.


Samplin' can be a mugs game these days unless you're crate digging and sampling things which are not attached to a label anymore.

[Karoshi]

Id put it on as many sites as possible for free download and email them all the links just in spite. probably paying with fire that though haha.

Or he could be an adult, take the hit and scrap it or re-record the part for himself.

so now im an adult, people can treat me however they want and i will just take it, because i am now an adult.

sounds fun

[paradigm_x]

Unless you commercially release the track without cleared samples, you cannot be taken to court over using a sample, fact!

Wrong.

Copyright law (at least in the UK) means you cant even copy it if noone else hears it. You do not have the right to copy it, literally.

Whether anyone will bother suing you unless theres money involved, and significant sums, is another matter entirely. The practical/realisitc outcome.

Its a hollw threat from this goth band, they are highly unlikely to spend the £100s/1000s on lawyers etc unless its financially viable.

Take from that what you will.

[paradigm_x]

Don't be scared; you'll just have to give it out free or record the piano yourself, note for note and switch a note or two.

^^^
I forgot about this option - re-record the piano bits yourself. I've had friends do that when they had a big commercial release that they didn't want to have to sample clear. The original track had samples, the track got signed, they re-recorded the sampled bits.

Indeed!

When speaking in notation purposes, its usually the final master which has been copyrighted not the actual sequence of notes them self.

With vocal its a bit different (as a lot of singers lyrics get copyrighted separately if the label can afford it) but there is companies out there who you can hire to sing popular songs and they pick singers out of their roster who has the closest they can get to the original artists but again; people have been known to be sued from this.


Samplin' can be a mugs game these days unless you're crate digging and sampling things which are not attached to a label anymore.

Your mixing up a few concepts.

Theres a copyright in the 'notes'/compostion. Theres also a copyright in the recording. Read up about the verve/rolling stones. The notes are usually dealt with by a publishing company, and used to be the way things were 'protected' before recording became possible/populat.

Every sinlge version of a tune i bounce out is copyrighted. (copywritten?) Again, whether or not anyone hears it/charges for it is irrelevant.

[legend4ry]

Unless you commercially release the track without cleared samples, you cannot be taken to court over using a sample, fact!

Wrong.

Copyright law (at least in the UK) means you cant even copy it if noone else hears it. You do not have the right to copy it, literally.

Whether anyone will bother suing you unless theres money involved, and significant sums, is another matter entirely. The practical/realisitc outcome.

Its a hollw threat from this goth band, they are highly unlikely to spend the £100s/1000s on lawyers etc unless its financially viable.

Take from that what you will.

Technically, yes!

Even when you buy a CD if you rip the tunes to your computer it is technically illegal as when you buy a CD you only buy the right to listen to the CD in that form of medium but I think the way the world is changing you'll find it very, very hard to get sued over something which isn't making any money as those people are more concerned about money in their pockets than putting people in prison.

Don't be scared; you'll just have to give it out free or record the piano yourself, note for note and switch a note or two.

^^^
I forgot about this option - re-record the piano bits yourself. I've had friends do that when they had a big commercial release that they didn't want to have to sample clear. The original track had samples, the track got signed, they re-recorded the sampled bits.

Indeed!

When speaking in notation purposes, its usually the final master which has been copyrighted not the actual sequence of notes them self.

With vocal its a bit different (as a lot of singers lyrics get copyrighted separately if the label can afford it) but there is companies out there who you can hire to sing popular songs and they pick singers out of their roster who has the closest they can get to the original artists but again; people have been known to be sued from this.


Samplin' can be a mugs game these days unless you're crate digging and sampling things which are not attached to a label anymore.

Your mixing up a few concepts.

Theres a copyright in the 'notes'/compostion. Theres also a copyright in the recording. Read up about the verve/rolling stones. The notes are usually dealt with by a publishing company, and used to be the way things were 'protected' before recording became possible/populat.

Every sinlge version of a tune i bounce out is copyrighted. (copywritten?) Again, whether or not anyone hears it/charges for it is irrelevant.

Its copywritten (I think thats right for us Brits but my spell check allows copyrighted? hahah!) in the sense that you can prove you're the owner of the intellectual property due to created dates and what not but it really depends on what kind of things are bound to the music!

I have read about a few cases where steps wasn't taken for the composition and things have been stolen, in one the label couldn't do anything because it wasn't ripped from the actual recording - granted it was a average sized indie label who didn't go through a publisher - I know things are slightly different when you're working with more established/major labels and things like PPL/PRS.

[paradigm_x]

Well i know, but youre talking about practical outcomes. I think its worthe knowing the facts, rather than assumptions, and making your own judgements from it, rather than taking someone else's word for it that it will be 'fine'.

With all due respect

[legend4ry]

Well i know, but youre talking about practical outcomes. I think its worthe knowing the facts, rather than assumptions, and making your own judgements from it, rather than taking someone else's word for it that it will be 'fine'.

With all due respect

Nah, you're right! I do know this stuff just somethings get wrapped up on how I perceive/see it opposed to the actual facts.



Speaking of this subject.. I do have a few essays given to me by a friend who graduated from law school specializing is music law, i'll ask him if I can upload em for you all.


Also if people are scared about this kind of thing you might want to think about joining the music production guild (if you're in UK) : http://www.mpg.org.uk/home

They have lawyers which you can get advice from, for free. Signing up is pretty pricey but if you're a student you can get it pretty cheap (I think I paid 50 pound?).