sample pack drums vs raw drums

[55stevieboy2010]

easy, been producing roughly 6 months now, just wondering a question about the title of this thread....how many of you use eq's samp packs (like vengeance) as appose to raw drums you eq yourself? It got me thinking because i have a mate whos been producing near on 10 years, and i love his stuff but he uses raw drum sounds, and if im honest when you compare them to the sounds of say j kenzo, benton, distance or anyone like this they just dont have the punch that they have. Do you all think the top producers use these already eq'd packs, because i struggle to believe they find them sounds from say the raw packs i have...

I ask becasue i use the raw drums because i feel its a bit like cheating to use eq'd ones....

[Alistairr]

man, i go by the theory that if u can use real drums then use them, but if u cant and ur struggling to get that punch, then just use some samples for now until ur skill set improves and u can eq them properly, theres no shame in using samples, its not cheating neither. its what u do with the samples that makes the difference, least we not forget dj shadow or any top producer (probably) started off just using samples, its the entry point for a lot of producers into music creation and should not be frowned upon in my book.

[55stevieboy2010]

cheers for the reply mate, yea i might just do that. Im trying SO hard to learn its like taking over my life, kinda pissing me off. For instance i take a raw kick drum, eq it, then ok it sounds better. But then i put a compressor on it (i assume i should put a compressor on each individual drum??) but all the compressor does is quieten it! i literally dont know what to do to make the compressor make it punchy, even if i watch youtube vids or read up etc, i still cant seem to get the compressor to make it sound better, even though i understand the theory behind it....

fuck knows, i kinda hope every pro producer went through this shit and im not on my own

[Dulskis]

Try taking the best of both worlds. Take a vengeance or sample pack sample with some punch and also a raw drum sample with tone that you like. EQ them separately to make them fit, then buss them to a final channel with a compressor to glue them together.

And for your compressor problems, after you apply compression you gotta turn up the gain to make up for the compression to get it back to the same volume level. Hope that helped!

[55stevieboy2010]

ok mate so put the 2 drums into a group and compress them together yea? k ill try that.

As for the compression, i do turn up the gain but if i turn it up to the same level as before it clips whereas before it didnt

[skimpi]

what do you mean by raw drums? like just taking a drum kit and record it? like most of these kicks and shit used in dubstep tunes arent real kicks, they might have a real kick in there, but i bet its mulitple kicks layered together, from real kicks, synthesised kicks, drum machine kicks, sample from record kicks, things that are even kicks. also if you dont know how to use a compressor then dont use them, you are probably just making it worse. if you want punch then get a punchy sample and layer it in there, if you want slap, get one with slap.

[55stevieboy2010]

what do you mean by raw drums? like just taking a drum kit and record it? like most of these kicks and shit used in dubstep tunes arent real kicks, they might have a real kick in there, but i bet its mulitple kicks layered together, from real kicks, synthesised kicks, drum machine kicks, sample from record kicks, things that are even kicks.

Well basically what i mean is i have a big library of drum samps ive downloaded and they have clearly havent been eq'd or any other effect added to make them sound better, i also have a vengeance pack which clearly have...

[55stevieboy2010]

also if you dont know how to use a compressor then dont use them, you are probably just making it worse. if you want punch then get a punchy sample and layer it in there, if you want slap, get one with slap.

That obviously makes sence mate but i want to learn how to use 1 so im trying to figure it out see

[skimpi]

what do you mean by raw drums? like just taking a drum kit and record it? like most of these kicks and shit used in dubstep tunes arent real kicks, they might have a real kick in there, but i bet its mulitple kicks layered together, from real kicks, synthesised kicks, drum machine kicks, sample from record kicks, things that are even kicks.

Well basically what i mean is i have a big library of drum samps ive downloaded and they have clearly havent been eq'd or any other effect added to make them sound better, i also have a vengeance pack which clearly have...

but like what kind of samples, real hits or not, cos i could understand not being able to get a smacking dubstep bro kick with a real kick drum sound on its own. i still EQ vengence hits though, i dont just take one and use it, ill take several, layer, EQ and maybe compress, but never really cos i choose samples that sound how i want already so i dont need to compress. but like with say, drum machine samples, un EQ'd they sound good already anyway. its according to the sound you want though, id say bro kicks are vengence samples layered and fucked with, its gonna be hard to get a kick like that using just stock drum machine hits, but thats not to say you cant get them to punch.

and with compressors, learn what each thing does then so that you know what it will do to the sound before you do it, if you are just messing about with the controls then yeah you can get good results that way, but then you might mess around and then bring up the gain and be like wow this sounds so good and loud! but then thats it, its just louder, but actually flatter and doesnt have any punch

[55stevieboy2010]

[/quote]but like what kind of samples, real hits or not, cos i could understand not being able to get a smacking dubstep bro kick with a real kick drum sound on its own. i still EQ vengence hits though, i dont just take one and use it, ill take several, layer, EQ and maybe compress, but never really cos i choose samples that sound how i want already so i dont need to compress. but like with say, drum machine samples, un EQ'd they sound good already anyway. its according to the sound you want though, id say bro kicks are vengence samples layered and fucked with, its gonna be hard to get a kick like that using just stock drum machine hits, but thats not to say you cant get them to punch[/quote]

ok mate thanks again, ill just drop 1 more question to you then, if you say you just eq and occasionally compress, that being all i do too, why is my percussion still miles off the pro's? phaeleh instantly jumps to mind, his percussion is just so clear...is that just very good sample choosing or i there other methods i can do to get that crisp sound?

Cheers for the help btw mate means alot, also id like to hear ure tunes if you have a soundcloud...

[55stevieboy2010]

excuse the quote balls up lol

[Dublicious]

I'll get boo'd by some righteous tnuc but i use processed drums because they sound better to me in edm, in rock and band music obv acoustic drums are much better

[skimpi]

but like what kind of samples, real hits or not, cos i could understand not being able to get a smacking dubstep bro kick with a real kick drum sound on its own. i still EQ vengence hits though, i dont just take one and use it, ill take several, layer, EQ and maybe compress, but never really cos i choose samples that sound how i want already so i dont need to compress. but like with say, drum machine samples, un EQ'd they sound good already anyway. its according to the sound you want though, id say bro kicks are vengence samples layered and fucked with, its gonna be hard to get a kick like that using just stock drum machine hits, but thats not to say you cant get them to punch[/quote]

ok mate thanks again, ill just drop 1 more question to you then, if you say you just eq and occasionally compress, that being all i do too, why is my percussion still miles off the pro's? phaeleh instantly jumps to mind, his percussion is just so clear...is that just very good sample choosing or i there other methods i can do to get that crisp sound?

Cheers for the help btw mate means alot, also id like to hear ure tunes if you have a soundcloud...[/quote]

well i dunno like obviously it is sample choice, but like i dont listen to much of his stuff so just checkin it now, sounds like real samples as opposed to with kicks and they probably arent all real kicks, like you you gotta choose the right sample, an then you have to EQ it so that you get rid of what you dont want, and like make apparent the stuff you do want, so one way to get a hit to cut through more is to give it a boost where the main snap is. then you also need to get it right in the mix, you need to create space for that hit in the mix, so that it can be heard even more. the right reverb might help it stick out more too, as then you can hear the tail off the reverb better, which makes you notice the initial hit more aswell. you can also compress too, but to help percussion like his stick out in the mix, you dont want to be squashing everything you want to let the transient through and then squash the tail, so that the hit is harder. you could also play around with increasing the gain on a bitcrusher, dont downsample or anything though, but that can be used as saturation and like compression to enable the sample to have more body to it, i cant really explain it that well but i know what i mean haha.

my soundcloud is in my sig

[55stevieboy2010]

ok mate im gonna read your last comment a few times see if i can make sence of it.

Btw how long have you been producing? And how long was it before you could finally say to yourself, yea im happy with the shit im making now, ive been 6 months and my production quality has only been slightly improving over the last 4 which is a tad depressing

tunes sound good btw biggup

[55stevieboy2010]

tell ya somethin else aswell mate if theres any promos for 'on display' going id def play that out on my rad show, pos at my night too if the crowds right for it. big tune

[skimpi]

ok mate im gonna read your last comment a few times see if i can make sence of it.

Btw how long have you been producing? And how long was it before you could finally say to yourself, yea im happy with the shit im making now, ive been 6 months and my production quality has only been slightly improving over the last 4 which is a tad depressing

tunes sound good btw biggup

dunno bout like 3 years maybe, i dunno its hard to think, i got my mac like november 2008 and then got logic maybe early 2009 which is when i started trying to make tunes, then it werent until like early 2010 until i made something i thought was alright, like i finished this one filthy tune haha, and that on display round about the same time, so just over a year from starting right out. but even then i didnt really know what i was doing much, but i dunno if innocent was the right word, it was much better making tunes then cos i was just messin around and making things, but now if i make something it HAS to be good so if somethings sounding shit i beat myself up about it and get pissed off. but yeah 6 months is nothing mate, i would be too worried about it, 6 months in i was making weird electro beats that were like 5 songs in one with the worst preset sounding synths ever haha. the more you make tunes and the more you learn about production the easier it will get and you will know how to go about things better.

and yeah i will PM you that tune.

[55stevieboy2010]

oh god dunna get me started on synths lol. ive recently got massive installed, no idea how to go about learning that shit lol

cheers for the tune bro, ill be on the promo for that 1

[Refuzed]

You'll find a lot of the really punchy kicks in sample packs are synthesised rather than from an actual drum kit. Worth bearing in mind..

[jetpack]

oh god dunna get me started on synths lol. ive recently got massive installed, no idea how to go about learning that shit lol

cheers for the tune bro, ill be on the promo for that 1

You spent a lot of money on a synth that you don't know how to use?

[55stevieboy2010]

oh god dunna get me started on synths lol. ive recently got massive installed, no idea how to go about learning that shit lol

cheers for the tune bro, ill be on the promo for that 1

You spent a lot of money on a synth that you don't know how to use?

is it ironic me saying thats possibly one of the stupidest replys ive read on this forum...? Please dont think im being funny here, but you have to own something to be able to use and learn with it....dont you?