The Great Vinyl vs. CDJ vs. Software Controller Debate

[Redderious]

Keep the trolls out, make this civil.

[B-Frank]

I'll sum it up:

Vinyl: Mine and many others favoruites but totally impractical nowadays.

Controllers: It isn't mixing, either get some decks or don't call yourself a DJ.

CDJ's: Todays realistic option.



Can't help but think that is as far as this can go?

[Redderious]

I'll sum it up:

Vinyl: Mine and many others favoruites but totally impractical nowadays.

Controllers: It isn't mixing, either get some decks or don't call yourself a DJ.

CDJ's: Todays realistic option.



Can't help but think that is as far as this can go?

Vinyls look the best and require the most skill, but what would one be able to do if there are no record shops nearby?

CDJ might be the respected closely to the amount of vinyl DJs but the cost makes them almost impossible to obtain for people who dont have atleast 2k saved up to spend on the decks and the mixer. Not to mention the hardships they might face getting the music. Absolutely no store in my area sells CDs with decent dubstep on them.

If i were to post a 45 minute continuous playlist of music where the songs are 'mixed' into eachother with a software controller (vci 300 + itch) what would it be considered if it isnt classified as 'mixing'?

[Volatile Psycle]

I'll sum it up:

Controllers: It isn't mixing, either get some decks or don't call yourself a DJ.

I had a go on a friends Pioneer controller the other weekend and it IS mixing and it was fucking wicked.

its bassically like having two CDJ's and a nice mixer but instead of using cd's its all stored on your laptop.
Plus you got the effects/loops/4decks with whatever controller software you are using.

[mikeyp]

would love to have vinyl just to have, although I don't think there's a single good record store within a 75 mile radius of me

love my cdjs, just wish I could afford some pioneer 2000s so I could see the waveform on the display and plug a usb stick in it rather than actually using cds

my buddy who I play with at a bar and parties has a traktor s4, it's pretty nifty but doesn't really require much mixing skill to sound good. it allows him to do a lot more not having to worry about beat matching and i've thought about getting something like it but mehh. i'll go laptop when/if i'm big enough to play mostly my own tunes and I can do some ableton bassnectar type shit

til then I'll stick to the cds

[Redderious]

i really think the sole cause for the arguement is just a clash of gens...

[mikeyp]

i really think the sole cause for the arguement is just a clash of gens...

pretty much. and laptops and controllers do give the opportunity to do some great things, it's just that most will not take advantage of them

[Redderious]

i really think the sole cause for the arguement is just a clash of gens...

pretty much. and laptops and controllers do give the opportunity to do some great things, it's just that most will not take advantage of them

it's true, setting loops, checking waveforms for breaks, ease of setting cuepoints are all things simplified using software controllers. I came into electronic music a little over a year ago when software controllers were on the rise, and they were still somewhat sensibly priced. All my music has been digital my whole life (with an exception of 9 years ago when i listend to ad/dc, metallica type music) so it made *perfect* sense to buy a software controller. 2 months of practicing and i fell in love with it.

[mikeyp]

i really think the sole cause for the arguement is just a clash of gens...

pretty much. and laptops and controllers do give the opportunity to do some great things, it's just that most will not take advantage of them

it's true, setting loops, checking waveforms for breaks, ease of setting cuepoints are all things simplified using software controllers. I came into electronic music a little over a year ago when software controllers were on the rise, and they were still somewhat sensibly priced. All my music has been digital my whole life (with an exception of 9 years ago when i listend to ad/dc, metallica type music) so it made *perfect* sense to buy a software controller. 2 months of practicing and i fell in love with it.

yeah when I first became interested in being involved in edm i had mixmeister on my computer (lol) so I got used to doing shit with waveforms and just clicking and dragging shit
I do really wish I could see waveforms now since I'm a really visual person and it just helps so much with knowing the whole song in one glance rather than having to listen to a certain part over and over again and counting beats and doing whatever. I know i'll probably get a controller someday but like I said i'm not just going to do simple mixing with it if I do, gonna try to push its capabilities to the limit. if someone's doing that with em then hell yeah but if you're just mixing A to B then imo get some cds.

it's really a great feeling over leaning over a laptop and pushing buttons and all that
I imagine it's even better with vinyl but i've never experienced it

[Khazm]

I use an APC40 with Ableton, if that's not 'cheating' then I don't know what is. But honestly, fuck it. I don't care if I'm manually beatmatching or not, I've learnt to beatmatch on vinyl efficiently, so if I ever need to I can. I love DJing with Ableton because of the almost unlimited possibilities it contains.

My $0.02

[DJ Crackle]

i really think the sole cause for the arguement is just a clash of gens...

pretty much. and laptops and controllers do give the opportunity to do some great things, it's just that most will not take advantage of them

This is a very important point. Laptop DJs can do some awesome shit. They just get shitted on, because the majority of them are worthless, and only use the sync n play buttons.
Anyway. I find it to be much of a preference issue. DVS systems have made the "not enough music pressed to vinyl/too expensive" arguments fairly null, in my opinion.
CDJs have become the standard, at least as far as I've seen around me. The convenience of carrying CDs opposed to crates of vinyl, or serato/laptop, as well as the ability for all of us to burn our own CDs is almost an unbeatable advantage.
I've personally owned CDJs since I've started DJing, and love them. I still salivate at the opportunity to play on vinyl, and I still enjoy hopping on a control every now and then. I've played a few parties with a friend where I played the whole thing on his S4, simply because I played a few songs on it then didn't even feel like setting up my decks.
Beatmatching is only the first step to DJing. A DJ that can beatmatch is certainly not instantly considered a good DJ, there's FAR more that goes into it. The idea that, because someone is not doing all of the beatmatching strictly by ear, they're not a real dj, is a tired and ignorant idea. Sure, it's different than the idea of a "DJ" we're used to, but when it comes down to it, our #1 job is to rock the crowds, not impress our stuck-up peers (and let's face it, DJs tend to have a bad high&mighty complex about them, I know I do).

Anyway, point is, I still think that the main argument in choosing one of the 3 just comes down to your personal preference.

[benjam]

I started djing recently and went for vinyl. Wasnt interested in controllers or cdjs at all. I live nowhere near any record shops but thats what the internets for. Id probably pick up some cdjs if my music ever got big and I started gigging a lot but thats unlikely. I have messed about on cdjs but IMO it just doesant compare.

[slothrop]

Beatmatching is only the first step to DJing. A DJ that can beatmatch is certainly not instantly considered a good DJ, there's FAR more that goes into it. The idea that, because someone is not doing all of the beatmatching strictly by ear, they're not a real dj, is a tired and ignorant idea. Sure, it's different than the idea of a "DJ" we're used to, but when it comes down to it, our #1 job is to rock the crowds, not impress our stuck-up peers (and let's face it, DJs tend to have a bad high&mighty complex about them, I know I do).

Yeah, as a punter I'd definitely agree with this. Getting two records playing at the same speed may be a technical skill but it's not exactly an expressive art form - in fact, the fact that a computer can do it perfectly adequately should probably tell you this. I'd rather see someone with an good selection doing interesting mixes on ableton than someone boring beatmatching manually on CDJs...

It seems like a lot of the objection to automatic beatmatching comes from DJs who've learnt to do it manually and feel threatened because they haven't really thought about what they bring to the party apart from the ability to get two records going at the same speed. Even though they may actually be doing a lot more than that.

[Redderious]

Although the crowd won't know if your doing it or not, automatic beatmatching is completely retarded. It doesn't take much effort at all to do it manually and i really frown upon Djs who use a computer to do it for them. I think using an automatic sync of the tempos is pushing it.

Idk, i don't like the idea of ordering music off the web and having to wait for it to be shipped to my house. I'm just impatient though...

[benjam]

Tbh whenever ive paid for standard shipping on chemical its usually come the next day and you can track the order on the site which is pretty sound

[slothrop]

Although the crowd won't know if your doing it or not, automatic beatmatching is completely retarded. It doesn't take much effort at all to do it manually and i really frown upon Djs who use a computer to do it for them. I think using an automatic sync of the tempos is pushing it.

Why care, though? I mean, if it doesn't make any difference to the set then why care how they do the mixing? It's like insisting that pianists all sit on one legged stools because it's harder to have to play piano while balancing than to have a four legged stool that does the balancing for you...

[slothrop]

It seems like a lot of the objection to automatic beatmatching comes from DJs who've learnt to do it manually and feel threatened because they haven't really thought about what they bring to the party apart from the ability to get two records going at the same speed. Even though they may actually be doing a lot more than that.

To put that another way, it feels like a lot of people are thinking "shit, I've spent years getting my beatmatching tight and now I'm going to get upstaged by all these kids with ableton doing it straight out of the box".

When in fact what they've spent years learning to do is read a crowd, build a set, spot tunes that'll work well together, know when to stay in the mix and when to switch up quickly, know when to pull it up and when to let it play out, know when to hold em, know when to fold em etc etc. Not to mention getting together a decent collection of tunes to work with. None of which ableton can do for you...

[DJ Crackle]

Although the crowd won't know if your doing it or not, automatic beatmatching is completely retarded. It doesn't take much effort at all to do it manually and i really frown upon Djs who use a computer to do it for them. I think using an automatic sync of the tempos is pushing it.

Frees DJs up to do other things creatively. The laptop DJs who take advantage of that time (and I've certainly seen some around my area) are the ones who impress me. If you're admitting it doesn't take much effort at all, then why insist that skipping that step to do other things is retarded? I have a few friends who throw down on their controllers, and can come rock my CD decks as well.

[DJ Crackle]

It seems like a lot of the objection to automatic beatmatching comes from DJs who've learnt to do it manually and feel threatened because they haven't really thought about what they bring to the party apart from the ability to get two records going at the same speed. Even though they may actually be doing a lot more than that.

To put that another way, it feels like a lot of people are thinking "shit, I've spent years getting my beatmatching tight and now I'm going to get upstaged by all these kids with ableton doing it straight out of the box".

When in fact what they've spent years learning to do is read a crowd, build a set, spot tunes that'll work well together, know when to stay in the mix and when to switch up quickly, know when to pull it up and when to let it play out, know when to hold em, know when to fold em etc etc. Not to mention getting together a decent collection of tunes to work with. None of which ableton can do for you...

Excellent points. The real issue to me with all of the new technology is that DJing has become a more accessible venue. While this may not seem like a terrible thing right away, everyone starts getting into it, everyone thinks they're a DJ, DJs have to fight for recognition now more than ever, this new generation of DJs who hasn't learned all of the finer points of DJing are willing to do whatever it takes to get gigs, promote the shit out of themselves, and play for little to no money. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but around Central Texas, many of the promoters seem to love the fact that they can hire these nobody kids on their laptops to come mix for no money, regardless of the fact that they don't know how to work the crowd. I've seen this trend HARD in a city a bit south of here, and it seems the general EDM scene out there just has DRASTICALLY lowered standards because of this, and don't really understand what a good DJ SHOULD be doing during their sets.

However, I'm not going to judge every new-gen DJ based on the negatives I've seen, because I very much so understand that while technology has made DJing more accessible and had some adverse affects on the scene as a whole, it also allows the limits of mixing as we know it to be pushed by those who are willing to take it that far. We can do things we could never do years ago thanks to the constant advancements.

[jrisreal]

I'll sum it up:

Vinyl: Mine and many others favoruites but totally impractical nowadays.

Controllers: It isn't mixing, either get some decks or don't call yourself a DJ.

CDJ's: Todays realistic option.



Can't help but think that is as far as this can go?

I disagree about controllers. I think people abuse the sync button but if you treat it like a vinyl setup (or even get a timecode setup) then I think it should be considered DJing