Legend4ry's sub bass tutorial

[Perfecture]

Right,

I have read through everything and still having a bit of an issue with sub bass.
I thought it was fine till recently when I noticed there is no way near enough beef when compared with other tracks.

Heres a run down.......

I have my sub bass playing F1, Using the EXS24, it's a pure sine, Its peaking at -12db and peaking at 40hz (from what I have read this is the IDEAL rumble frequency).
for some reason it's just not booming through like other sub basses I hear in 'Big name' tracks.
I have tried limiting, compressing, adding distortion for harmonics and I still can't get the beef needed.

Is the mastering stage going to help with this or should my sub bass at mixdown stage easily be able to match 'big name' tracks and their sub bass?

I can't figure out what I am doing wrong, Anyone have any tips at all?

Your help is much appreciated guys.

[legend4ry]

Try using a low passed 808 kick if you want pure boom.

[Cyren]

don't know if it has already been said, but you can also use a deep saw and filter it down. Sounds like sine but covers a bigger freq. spectrum. If my midrange begins at 300-400Hz a single sine won't fill the gap.

[therapist]

Right,

I have read through everything and still having a bit of an issue with sub bass.
I thought it was fine till recently when I noticed there is no way near enough beef when compared with other tracks.

Heres a run down.......

I have my sub bass playing F1, Using the EXS24, it's a pure sine, Its peaking at -12db and peaking at 40hz (from what I have read this is the IDEAL rumble frequency).
for some reason it's just not booming through like other sub basses I hear in 'Big name' tracks.
I have tried limiting, compressing, adding distortion for harmonics and I still can't get the beef needed.

Is the mastering stage going to help with this or should my sub bass at mixdown stage easily be able to match 'big name' tracks and their sub bass?

I can't figure out what I am doing wrong, Anyone have any tips at all?

Your help is much appreciated guys.

When you say peaking do you mean that' the highest frequency? You will feel that in a club but don't expect to her much of it producing at home.

[Perfecture]

Right,

I have read through everything and still having a bit of an issue with sub bass.
I thought it was fine till recently when I noticed there is no way near enough beef when compared with other tracks.

Heres a run down.......

I have my sub bass playing F1, Using the EXS24, it's a pure sine, Its peaking at -12db and peaking at 40hz (from what I have read this is the IDEAL rumble frequency).
for some reason it's just not booming through like other sub basses I hear in 'Big name' tracks.
I have tried limiting, compressing, adding distortion for harmonics and I still can't get the beef needed.

Is the mastering stage going to help with this or should my sub bass at mixdown stage easily be able to match 'big name' tracks and their sub bass?

I can't figure out what I am doing wrong, Anyone have any tips at all?

Your help is much appreciated guys.

When you say peaking do you mean that' the highest frequency? You will feel that in a club but don't expect to her much of it producing at home.

I will try the 808 kick thing as I was going to test that tonight.

Also I know it will be fine in a club, but If other tracks I listen to on my monitors at home have really boomy bass and on headphones even, then mine should too. It shouldn't only shine through in a club. If that was the case then all tracks would lack bass that I listen to at home, but they don't.

I will also try a low end saw as well and see how that works.

And by peaking I mean the volume is peaking at a constant level of -12db.
my levels are..............

Sub Bass: -12db
Kick: -11db
Snare: -11db
Mids: -14db
Hats/precussion: - 15db
Synths: -15db
FX: -16db

So as you can see my levels are all pretty in check and at good volume relevence to each other.

[therapist]

I just meant that that may be too low, unless you know you're hearing that same pitch in the 'big name' tracks. I never use 808s (basically just a sine wave under that kick sound anyway isn't it?) but the only thing that will stop a sine wave hitting properly is clashing frequencies, or being too low/high (for your speakers).

[JFK]

I just meant that that may be too low, unless you know you're hearing that same pitch in the 'big name' tracks. I never use 808s (basically just a sine wave under that kick sound anyway isn't it?) but the only thing that will stop a sine wave hitting properly is clashing frequencies, or being too low/high (for your speakers).

Agree 100% 40hz is going to be too low for you to hear with any clarity on your home monitoring system mate.

[Perfecture]

I just meant that that may be too low, unless you know you're hearing that same pitch in the 'big name' tracks. I never use 808s (basically just a sine wave under that kick sound anyway isn't it?) but the only thing that will stop a sine wave hitting properly is clashing frequencies, or being too low/high (for your speakers).

Agree 100% 40hz is going to be too low for you to hear with any clarity on your home monitoring system mate.

Fair enough, what you reckon is the 'Ideal' frequency for pure beef?

[JFK]

I just meant that that may be too low, unless you know you're hearing that same pitch in the 'big name' tracks. I never use 808s (basically just a sine wave under that kick sound anyway isn't it?) but the only thing that will stop a sine wave hitting properly is clashing frequencies, or being too low/high (for your speakers).

Agree 100% 40hz is going to be too low for you to hear with any clarity on your home monitoring system mate.

Fair enough, what you reckon is the 'Ideal' frequency for pure beef?

As a general rule I would say 60 - 70hz peak. Try moving your sub up an octave mate.

[matthewjaredboulton]

Some more tips...

Sub bass should be monophonic. If you play 2 sub notes at once, things will get very messy, and you'll have to turn the volume down to stop distortion. Don't forget that decaying notes count too, if (like Reason's Thor) the synth you are using has the ability to add polophony for release tails, turn this off as well as the normal poly.

Sub Bass will be louder if it's in mono. Simple maths really: 2 speakers cranking out your mono sub is louder than 1 pumping out a sub panned hard left or right.

Sticking effects on a sub very rarely leaves you with a usable sub. Reverb and delay are especially unlikely to give good results, because they introduce polophony. Vibrato, portamento, pitc-bend and tremelo work fine, while shapers, octave shifters and so on can give useful results, but they tend to turn sub bass into plain old bass - not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you end up thinking 'this is banging... but it would be better if I layered it with a sub', then you've sort of missed the point of a sub bass.

Fix your clicks! Having a very short attack or decay often leads to clicks, because the envelope cuts off the sine wave unnaturally. It's tempting to think of this clicking as an unexpected rhythmic bonus, because it happens in time with your track, but don't, you'll eat up headroom, you'll have nowhere to turn when you decide your breakdown needs the clicks but not the sub bass, and because the clicks vary depending on where in the cycle your sine wave is, you'll get unpredictable results.

A very short portamento works wonders. Those irritating clicks when you stop one note and start another often can be solved by simply not stopping one note and starting another! If you turn portamento on, so the sub glides from one note to the next, the clicks should practically vanish, even if you make the glide so fast it's unnoticeable.

Solved my problem, thank-you so much.

[Sideways____]

Perfecture, when I make a bass I really want to boom I have no worries in boosting it a little. Some times my sub peak at -8 and my kicks even higher, not sure if it's commonly done, but it works for me! Also do you have the FL limiter on your master? Or maybe it's turned off, squeezing out those extra db really makes a difference

[Immerse]

I just meant that that may be too low, unless you know you're hearing that same pitch in the 'big name' tracks. I never use 808s (basically just a sine wave under that kick sound anyway isn't it?) but the only thing that will stop a sine wave hitting properly is clashing frequencies, or being too low/high (for your speakers).

Agree 100% 40hz is going to be too low for you to hear with any clarity on your home monitoring system mate.

Fair enough, what you reckon is the 'Ideal' frequency for pure beef?

As a general rule I would say 60 - 70hz peak. Try moving your sub up an octave mate.

This is true when listening on a system with a decent midwoofer, but 60-70 is barely sub bass. itll sound great on your monitors but when you take it to a fat sub set up 60-70hz is was too high to move much air at all.
ps: big up great thread

[phrex]

? what monitoring do you guys have. dunno if i mean the same thing. but a rumbling subbass at 40hz sits perfect with me.
(adam a8x)

[TragicTravisty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fFVCpumgX8

distance gives a view contrary to what's mainly being given here. he thinks subs should be audible on systems without subwoofers, so he brings out some harmonics. i'd say i disagree with his view, but i think it should get some attention.

[serox]

sub is easy to make. making a bass that goes low but can also be heard on shit speakers is a bit harder imo

[highdrake]

Hi guys is this a pretty accurate representation of how a sub should fit?



Maybe put a compressor on it? I have a low pass filter on it to bring it out a little louder.

[serox]

Hi guys is this a pretty accurate representation of how a sub should fit?

Maybe put a compressor on it? I have a low pass filter on it to bring it out a little louder.

A sub shouldnt need a filter or an EQ. No need for a compressor neither if you ask me. A simple sine (mono) mixed low and then a mid range (with some width if you like) bass of ur choice sitting on top of it.

[Sue]

hey guys-

yes we can all make a strait sub from a sine wave, but what about thickening up some dynamic midrange bass with an "underpinned" sine wave, so that you get the boom that moves with your midrange stuff.

I've tried side chaining my sine-sub to my midrange bass via a gate or a compressor with not great results, too much clicking, etc. Maybe i should just try and run another oscillator off my synth, playing a dropped sine?


(see link for example off the "dynamic midrange basses" i like to work with)

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