Steve Albini on Piracy

[collige]

Interesting, but I don't think all artists share his views, so this isn't a justification

http://verbatimpirate.wordpress.com/

[AllNightDayDream]

Interesting, but I don't think all artists share his views, so this isn't a justification

http://verbatimpirate.wordpress.com/

[volcanogeorge]

He's saying they managed before, so they it's obviously very possible that we as a people COULD buy music instead of pirate it if we so choose

thats completely beside the point, people don't just pirate because they can't afford to buy.

pirates buy a lot of music, a good amount of pirated stuff would never have been bought in the first place because the price doesn't justify the downloaders interest in the music. it's a highly flawed point to think that 1 illegal album download is equal to one lost sale.

[ch3]

people were buying it before they could steal it. And no, i'm not going to stop using the word "steal"

That's not true. Where I'm from it was pretty much impossible to buy 'western' music until 90's. We used to have the reel tape recorder and taped whole albums that were played on the radio (and yes, radio would play WHOLE albums then, with no talking over whatsoever). Whoever was lucky enough to be allowed abroad and brought some records back would then copy them onto tapes for their friends. Later on we switched to cassettes, when CDs were the new thing in, and people were not able to afford buying them. Places such as music rentals popped up - you could rent a bunch of CDs for a fee and copy them onto C-tapes. That business was legal for a good few years!

So, home taping was killing music? I would say on the contrary - it allowed people to share it, enjoy it and truly value it.

[BLAHBLAHJAH]

There's no shortage of decent bedroom musicians waiting to fill the void. Let the business eat its own limbs and be taken over by the slugs

[Dub_freak]

[Today]

people were buying it before they could steal it. And no, i'm not going to stop using the word "steal"

That's not true. Where I'm from it was pretty much impossible to buy 'western' music until 90's. We used to have the reel tape recorder and taped whole albums that were played on the radio (and yes, radio would play WHOLE albums then, with no talking over whatsoever). Whoever was lucky enough to be allowed abroad and brought some records back would then copy them onto tapes for their friends. Later on we switched to cassettes, when CDs were the new thing in, and people were not able to afford buying them. Places such as music rentals popped up - you could rent a bunch of CDs for a fee and copy them onto C-tapes. That business was legal for a good few years!

So, home taping was killing music? I would say on the contrary - it allowed people to share it, enjoy it and truly value it.

I'm not speaking on a minority of unique cases. It is impossible to have this discussion without referring to the majority of music audiences world wide. And we were buying music. your anecdotes are meaningless in this conversation


Also, there is a shortage of good music being produced. There is an abundance of shit saturated with piss. We are seeing a decline in quality and an unprecedented surge in suppliers.

[volcanogeorge]

Also, there is a shortage of good music being produced. There is an abundance of shit saturated with piss. We are seeing a decline in quality and an unprecedented surge in suppliers.

how does this help your argument at all? if what you are saying were correct then people would be more likely to pirate the low quality stuff that they wouldn't otherwise pay for, hardly an argument to say people should pay for everything if they want to listen to it. the number of suppliers is really irrelevant, all that means is that as magma said, the "majors" aren't very major any more and they're trying to cling to their outdated ideas.

[collige]

people were buying it before they could steal it. And no, i'm not going to stop using the word "steal"

That's not true. Where I'm from it was pretty much impossible to buy 'western' music until 90's. We used to have the reel tape recorder and taped whole albums that were played on the radio (and yes, radio would play WHOLE albums then, with no talking over whatsoever). Whoever was lucky enough to be allowed abroad and brought some records back would then copy them onto tapes for their friends. Later on we switched to cassettes, when CDs were the new thing in, and people were not able to afford buying them. Places such as music rentals popped up - you could rent a bunch of CDs for a fee and copy them onto C-tapes. That business was legal for a good few years!

So, home taping was killing music? I would say on the contrary - it allowed people to share it, enjoy it and truly value it.

I'm not speaking on a minority of unique cases. It is impossible to have this discussion without referring to the majority of music audiences world wide. And we were buying music. your anecdotes are meaningless in this conversation


Also, there is a shortage of good music being produced. There is an abundance of shit saturated with piss. We are seeing a decline in quality and an unprecedented surge in suppliers.

The point is there were plenty of ways to "steal" music before piracy was a thing. Burning CDs, copying cassettes, ripping stuff of the radio, etc. All of this was pretty commonplace.

[ch3]

people were buying it before they could steal it. And no, i'm not going to stop using the word "steal"

That's not true. Where I'm from it was pretty much impossible to buy 'western' music until 90's. We used to have the reel tape recorder and taped whole albums that were played on the radio (and yes, radio would play WHOLE albums then, with no talking over whatsoever). Whoever was lucky enough to be allowed abroad and brought some records back would then copy them onto tapes for their friends. Later on we switched to cassettes, when CDs were the new thing in, and people were not able to afford buying them. Places such as music rentals popped up - you could rent a bunch of CDs for a fee and copy them onto C-tapes. That business was legal for a good few years!

So, home taping was killing music? I would say on the contrary - it allowed people to share it, enjoy it and truly value it.

I'm not speaking on a minority of unique cases. It is impossible to have this discussion without referring to the majority of music audiences world wide. And we were buying music. your anecdotes are meaningless in this conversation

These were not minority cases! It's not a question of a few households, but nations of millions.

[Marcus]

Pirates actually buy more media than anyone else and i don't think that's going to change any time soon.
If your music is good enough it will get bought.

[DRTY]

his point is correct but it doesn't make piracy ok. As a promoter this all sucks dick. Artists want crazy money, and people want cheap entry.

[Today]

Pirates actually buy more media than anyone else

this needs a source

These were not minority cases! It's not a question of a few households, but nations of millions.

so does this.
the only numbers i can find are the ones reporting billions of dollars less in record sales
bootlegging has always been popular but so was buying records. It's blatantly obvious that now, the ease with which you can pirate is staggering compared with oldschool bootlegging, the quality is now equal to that of a legitimately obtained file (this is a relevant fact), and bootlegging was not nearly as popular as torrenting has become. Also this isn't p2p, its p2network. technology is moving against the rights of IP owners, while assisting in piracy that has nothing to do with community or "sharing." You're not "sharing" with the thousands of strangers across the world that you seed to. You're enabling them.
Just because you suddenly can do something, doesn't mean it's right to do. I had this moral conflict myself when i first started using Napster. I knew it was wrong.

Anyway all the claims that it's "good for artists" etc. need some major backing up. And the rejections of the claims it has hurt the industry are pretty much total horse shit.

[Marcus]

Pirates actually buy more media than anyone else

this needs a source

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009 ... age-folks/
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201107 ... dopi.shtml
https://torrentfreak.com/pirates-are-th ... rs-100122/

So many more links i could dig up.

[volcanogeorge]

Pirates actually buy more media than anyone else

this needs a source

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/ap ... more-music

http://paidcontent.org/2009/11/02/419-r ... sic-sales/

two different studies, same conclusion.

[Today]

one study of 2,000 people showed that of those 2,000, the ones who pirated music were 10 times more likely to say that they also buy an undetermined amount of music.
The other "think tank" had a sample size of 1,008 and revealed that of those 1,008, a third admitted to pirating goods. 26 percent of those claim to spend "a little" or "a lot" more on music. hm. 26% of 33% of 1,008. or about 86 people.

......

I'm laughing my fucking arse off at your "evidence"

[volcanogeorge]

laugh away. you can pick and choose whatever you want from the studies, the point remains that the recording industry is fighting a losing battle here by clinging to their dated idea of how people consume music.

piracy has been around for decades, it's going nowhere mate

[Laszlo]

bootlegging was not nearly as popular as torrenting has become.

this needs a source.

also, inb4 garethom

[tyger]

The entire concept of intellectual property needs to be reworked. It does nothin but make numerous industries sluggish and inefficient. It's one of the reasons American healthcare is choking itself at the moment.

another reason being that the most efficient economic system for healthcare is COMMUNISM.

you were going to say that, right?

[tyger]

back on topic ...

if it's wrong to download illegally, is it also wrong to watch unauthorized youtube videos?