Avoiding being messy

[MaZa1]

How do you avoid making the track too messy, but still not empty feeling? I mean, i have like drum loop and some attmosphere+ pad and some other background sounds and the track sounds kinda full, but maybe a bit messy. But if i erase some of those background sounds the track starts to feel empty.
I think eq is the key, but how should i eq a pad or attmosphere for example?

[alpz]

If you're having sounds clashing, you want to EQ whatever isn't essential to the sound out, and if there are two sounds that overlap a lot, EQ a peak at the most important frequency and a trough in the opposing sound for them peak through. This way you can keep some of the fullness but still have some clarity. On most every sound you can EQ out a large portion of it to free up head space to no ill effect. Low pass hi-hats, hi-pass kicks and basses. By keeping these spare frequencies under control, you help keep your mix from getting muddy.

Remember that individual sounds might sound flat, but together when the whole mix is playing, they will sound just fine. You can get creative with the EQ and bring out the parts you normally cut off when you're in a sparse section of your tune, and then cut it off again once the track fills up. Automation is key.

[ehbes]

Remember that individual sounds might sound flat, but together when the whole mix is playing, they will sound just fine.

[alpz]

Remember that individual sounds might sound flat, but together when the whole mix is playing, they will sound just fine.

Should have put a disclaimer: That's not true with EVERY sound. Things like pads and synths is more what I was referring to. Elements such as kicks and percussion and bass you want to keep rather fat and happy.

[drake89]

Low pass hi-hats, hi-pass kicks and basses. .

so much time and so little to do...

[ehbes]

Remember that individual sounds might sound flat, but together when the whole mix is playing, they will sound just fine.

Should have put a disclaimer: That's not true with EVERY sound. Things like pads and synths is more what I was referring to. Elements such as kicks and percussion and bass you want to keep rather fat and happy.

each sound should sound good on its own

[alpz]

Low pass hi-hats, hi-pass kicks and basses. .

so much time and so little to do...

Vise versa

[mitchAUS]

How do you avoid making the track too messy

Messy can be about timing as much as it is about eq, so check that first. This doesn't mean put everything on grid but if the elements are not tight with each other things start sounding sloppy. http://www.fabriclondon.com/blog/view/k ... e-to-swing good read about groove and elements working together, explains it better then i can.

If the timing isn't sloppy there is likely a buildup in the bid range given that you have atmosphere + a bad + back ground noises. These sort of sounds tend to dominate the lower mids and is a problem area that is often described as muddy.

If you're having sounds clashing, you want to EQ whatever isn't essential to the sound out

If you take this surgical approach you can end up with lifeless, sterile mixes that lose the vibe completely. Eq is all about practice though, the more you use it your ears will learn to critically listen.

There are other techniques you can use. My approach would be to separate the Mid/side channels of the atmosphere and pad. This week's Pensados Place ITL goes through the technique, worth having a look:

Bring the volume of the mid channel for both down and then eq the sides of each so they sit well with each other. Then the middle is clear for the drums and back ground noises. You clear out the middle giving space for each element and widen the stereo image - two birds, one stone.

[MaZa1]

Thanks for your answers.
This gave me things to do and think more about when mixing tracks

[didi]

Remember that individual sounds might sound flat, but together when the whole mix is playing, they will sound just fine.

Should have put a disclaimer: That's not true with EVERY sound. Things like pads and synths is more what I was referring to. Elements such as kicks and percussion and bass you want to keep rather fat and happy.

each sound should sound good on its own

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. If I've got a kick that's really quite light on its own, but when hitting with the sub sounds weighty as fuck I'm happy. I don't mind things sounding a bit strange solo'd if they're banging once they get on the 2buss.

[Turnipish_Thoughts]

Balance and groove. Find the point of there being enough but not too much. If you have more ideas for the track, spread them out across different sections.

[Attila]

Remember that individual sounds might sound flat, but together when the whole mix is playing, they will sound just fine.

Should have put a disclaimer: That's not true with EVERY sound. Things like pads and synths is more what I was referring to. Elements such as kicks and percussion and bass you want to keep rather fat and happy.

each sound should sound good on its own

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you make every sound awesome on it's own, your final mix will probably be terrible

[ehbes]

Remember that individual sounds might sound flat, but together when the whole mix is playing, they will sound just fine.

Should have put a disclaimer: That's not true with EVERY sound. Things like pads and synths is more what I was referring to. Elements such as kicks and percussion and bass you want to keep rather fat and happy.

each sound should sound good on its own

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you make every sound awesome on it's own, your final mix will probably be terrible

I meant Relative to the mix it sound still sound good

At dididub- how can something sound weak on its own but punchy in the mix that doesn't make sense

[alpz]

At dididub- how can something sound weak on its own but punchy in the mix that doesn't make sense

That IS the whole point of layering.

[skimpi]

EQ is the key to get things fitting better together, but some sounds will just contrast. you need to pick sounds that go well with each other as well as making them fit together better, if you have a big mid ranger bass, and then a thick melody with quite a bit of midrange too, and then a fat snare with loads of midrange, and some percussion in that area too, then its going to start getting messy.

Also panning can help, if you have two elements that operate the same space, EQ them so that they are slightly separated, and then pan them to opposite sides slightly to give them more space.

[ehbes]

At dididub- how can something sound weak on its own but punchy in the mix that doesn't make sense

That IS the whole point of layering.

the point of layer is to add qualities that you can't get with just one sample.. now explain to me how its possible that these qualities magically come through in a mix but not solo'd out..

[alpz]

At dididub- how can something sound weak on its own but punchy in the mix that doesn't make sense

That IS the whole point of layering.

the point of layer is to add qualities that you can't get with just one sample.. now explain to me how its possible that these qualities magically come through in a mix but not solo'd out..

If you have a booming sub (think 808), and layer it with a somewhat weak sounding kick (because the bass has been EQd out), it will sound like a fat 808 kick with a punch. That's pretty much the exact mental image I got from what the other person said, which is certainly how I do some sounds. Compromising was one of the hardest things to learn for me about producing. I could make fat sounds, big basses, lush synths, but I couldn't get them to sit together and I had no concept of why. Now after learning quite a great deal more, I've learned I have to compromise for the sake of the mix's integrity. I can get the essence of each sound, and layer them together to create a track that sounds full, punchy, and crisp (or whatever other adjective you want to apply). Individual sounds might sound weak, but how many of those sounds do you hear individually during a track? If there is a sound I had to take a decent part out of for the sake of a mix and there is a sparse section I want that sound to be in, I will automate the EQ to open up when there is room for it to breathe (i.e. crash and ride symbols).

It's also worth noting that 'weak' is relative. You may consider a sound to be weaker than it really is, because you had the luxury of hearing it unaltered. You can trim a large part of most sounds away and it will still sound decent (there are obviously exceptions, like percussion), you just have to see the big picture sometimes.

[ehbes]

But what I'm getting at elements shouldn't have rely on sounding good only in the mix... They should also sound good soloed out. It's basically the same idea as shit in, shit out

[boko91]

Going back to the OP i find that subtle automation on the basic elements will hold interest when you dont have much going on.

just have a section with a kick,snare 2 hi hats and your bass playing. if you start automating the reverb level of the hats and the sends to delay busses, play about with delay/reverbs on certain snares and automate filters/distortion or whatever on your bass. You can keep that section interesting to the ear for long periods of time without adding anything

[Burgeamon]

We've read it everywhere - If you wanna get a good kick you can layer samples together to make the kick you want.

Do that - but for your entire mix.