Thoughts on Vegetarians/vegans

[gwa]

i don't believe there is an outside entity dictating shit. as its been said its own personal morels, and i garentee you i have nothing against people eating meat, nor do i give people shit for eating meat (i don't like watching people eat stake infront of me though especially if it's rare).

personally, i see every thing is as equal as each other on this planet. we all share it, we all live here, we are all one collective consciousness. we don't require meat in our diet anymore and we hold emotional attachment for the animals so why is it ok to take their life?

[Forum]

I guess you don't drive then?

[noam]

you wouldn't take another persons life
you wouldn't take a baby's live for your enjoyment be ause they are helpless and can't defend themselves.

animals have consciousness, albeit some more advanced than others, but they still have one, so why would you want to kill it for your own enjoyment?

we live in a society where we can survive perfectly fine without killing and hunting and cultivating meat for our own fucking taste buds? its the ultimate definition of wanker.

there is nothing greater or better or any less worthy of living on this planet than anyone else.

the whole evolution argument, or saying its down to the food chain is bull shit because we are more advanced than that.

it's also causing great damage to our environment to get that stake on our plates.

sorry bro, you got nothin here, your argument is moralising about what you need and dont need but you blow DOUGH on clothes you dont necessarily need and you wear animal products, you wear clothes made from animals, you wash yourself with chemicals tested on them, you buy drugs that are manufactured at the expense and exploitation of other humans etc.

fair enough, if you cant stomach the thought of eating something thats come from an animal but dont rationalise your position with an argument that makes you a hypocrite

[gwa]

somethings are unavoidable.

we all need clothes, i've just got the bank to buy nice ones.

[gwa]

thread title is about eating meat not how to be a buddisht

[capo ultra]

I would drop that particular argument then George cos it don't make no sense.

talking about who gives the right suggests
1/ an outside position
meaning
a/ you believe in God, in which case you lose your argument cos 'God' believes in eating animals, so you lose your argument there
b/ you believe in the courts of man, our laws do not state that eating meat is a crime, so you lose your argument there
c/ you believe that every person is their own God, in which case you've answered your own question.

[the wiggle baron]

Meh, my girlfriends a lifelong vegetarian and im not. Never caused a problem though, im not a massive meat eater. And she knows and says herself that the only reason shes vegetarian is cos she was brought up that way by her parents. Got absoloutely no qualms about an animal dieing for food, I think were viewing our role in the world with too much importance if we think our abstinence of meat eating is worth anything on a global scale, but of course, we now have the ability to carry this process out in 'humane' ways (key point to me, humanity is not seperating ourselves from the animal kingdom, just understanding the importance of our place in it, in a literal non-spiritual sense)

So yeah. 100 years ago I would have said eat meat as much as you can afford to, bearing in mind that meat SHOULD be an expensive luxury, as the method of producing them is not a cheap one. Whole chickens should not cost £2 from iceland, there should be costs footed by the consumer for land space, the time from a farmer to actually treat the animals as such (rather than clucking/mooing food bags) and the far increased amount of total food mass needed to go from sunlight -> chicken.

Which takes me to my final point. We probably need to stop eating meat. At least on a regular basis. The people ive got the biggest problem with in this argument is those, and theres loads of them, that dont think a meal is complete without meat. Mindless fucktards. Anyway yeah, weve totally overpopulated this planet. The only real guilt I ever feel in regards to eating meat is knowing that to create a chicken for example, you have to feed it 10 times the amount of food that it creates. If you want to have a chicken with 1000 calories of sustainance, you have to grow and feed it 10,000 calories of food. Now, in a world with as much global hunger as we have, and an ever expanding population, meat has to take a sideline. My personal solution to this is removing the "right" people feel in eating meat. Meat SHOULD be expensive, and it should be something you can only afford to eat as an occasion. If the only meat you could get was well farmed, free range animals, then the price would force people to think about whether or not they want a steak this week, rather then just going for the bottom shelf value shitsteak.

tl;dr

I have no ethical qualms with killing an animal to eat it.
I do have ethical qualms with non-humane animal husbandry.
I do have ethical qualms with eating meat when vegetarian diets would allow our total food resources to go further globally.
Solution: Enforce strict laws governing animal welfare on a global scale, increase the price of (now good quality) meat drastically, ensure meat is seen as a treat from time to time as opposed to a daily necessity, result in a solution to in my mind all the problems of the meat industry.

Oh, and I can fully understand why people might take my point about global hunger and say "well why not just stop eating meat altogether"? My thoughts though is that (good) meat really is an amazing thing to eat. We are hardwired from the last few bajillion years to find it satisfying and enjoyable, and to remove that completely would a) take some real, genuinely animal/human (inextricably linked) enjoyment out of life and b) be completely impractical in the west. Some people would never, ever let that happen.

[SCope13]

I'm a vegetarian not so much out of love for animals, but more from an environmental and sustainability standpoint.

[magma]

This is always a difficult/futile debate to have... when something makes moral sense to you, it makes moral sense... there's no argument available.

Gwa doesn't like eating meat. I think we can all probably deal with that without yelling hypocrite. Frankly, whatever side of this argument you're on you can yell hypocrite... almost all of us live in the middle of an enormous web of private hypocrisy.

As for "thoughts on vegetarians/vegans", I don't really have any unless they're planning to cook okra instead of t-bone on my birthday.

I agree with Wiggles a LOT.

[noam]

shyah, so read my point again and tell me where i wasn't talking about what you said??

but really, i just clocked this thread is 5 pages deep and i read half the first page so im guessing you've been through this already, i prob shud jus have read it

[bela]

i was vegetarian and dabbled in veganism for a long time (mostly for environmental reasons), but gave it up when i did some extensive traveling and realized it was coming from a place of privilege to be able to say - 'oh, i don't eat that' when i was largely dependent on my hosts to feed me.

i like to call myself an opportunist eater - i don't buy meat when i'm providing food for myself, but if it's a case of 'eat it or it'll get binned,' i'll happily have a bit of bacon -- i think it's more of a shame for meat to be wasted than to be consumed in the first place.

[bela]

oh yeah, & wiggle's on point

[noam]

This is always a difficult/futile debate to have... when something makes moral sense to you, it makes moral sense... there's no argument available.

Gwa doesn't like eating meat. I think we can all probably deal with that without yelling hypocrite. Frankly, whatever side of this argument you're on you can yell hypocrite... almost all of us live in the middle of an enormous web of private hypocrisy.

As for "thoughts on vegetarians/vegans", I don't really have any unless they're planning to cook okra instead of t-bone on my birthday.

I agree with Wiggles a LOT.

there's numerous positions available to adopt where you CAN make moral judgements and argue them rationally

kind of a silly thing to declare that 'if something makes moral sense to you it just DOES, you dont need to be able to back it up with anything...'

but yeh, obviously the hypocrisy thing can be levelled at any one of us for something or other, its one of my personal beliefs about being human is that we are literally built from contradictions, if you've ever been 'wrong' about something before in your life you'll have believed contrary statements/facts about a particular thing so yes its inherent

but an argument about not eating meat from a moral standpoint where you dont believe in harming animals, when you make no effort to apply it universally is bogus. thats MY point, and its right

[gwa]

I would drop that particular argument then George cos it don't make no sense.

talking about who gives the right suggests
1/ an outside position
meaning
a/ you believe in God, in which case you lose your argument cos 'God' believes in eating animals, so you lose your argument there
b/ you believe in the courts of man, our laws do not state that eating meat is a crime, so you lose your argument there
c/ you believe that every person is their own God, in which case you've answered your own question.

now as i do believe in option c, it would mean that we have our own right to chose which goes back to personal morals. but my personal belief that there is'nt anything greater of less than us on the planet and that we are all equal, so therefore i don't believe we have the right to kill an animal for our pleasure

[Electric_Head]

Cows produce methane, they deserve to die.

[noam]

pleasure?? we're talking about food

i eat meat cos its food, i cook it so it tastes nice, i cook it so it tastes nice because things tasting nice are pleasurable

i eat broccoli cos its food, i cook it so it tastes nice, i cook it so it tastes nice because things tasting nice are pleasurable

i dont eat animals cos it gives me pleasure to eat an animal, i eat because i have to, what i do to the food i eat is a separate thing entirely

i dont eat broccoli because eating plants gives me pleasure... catch my drift

[gwa]

fuck this were going in circles.

I'm off to go drink 15 pints of ale and ask my mate for a bite of his KFC


/THREAD

[capo ultra]

I would drop that particular argument then George cos it don't make no sense.

talking about who gives the right suggests
1/ an outside position
meaning
a/ you believe in God, in which case you lose your argument cos 'God' believes in eating animals, so you lose your argument there
b/ you believe in the courts of man, our laws do not state that eating meat is a crime, so you lose your argument there
c/ you believe that every person is their own God, in which case you've answered your own question.

now as i do believe in option c, it would mean that we have our own right to chose which goes back to personal morals. but my personal belief that there is'nt anything greater of less than us on the planet and that we are all equal, so therefore i don't believe we have the right to kill an animal for our pleasure

ok sorry didn't realise 'who gave us the right to eat meat?' was a rhetorical question

[capo ultra]

pleasure?? we're talking about food

i eat meat cos its food, i cook it so it tastes nice, i cook it so it tastes nice because things tasting nice are pleasurable

i eat broccoli cos its food, i cook it so it tastes nice, i cook it so it tastes nice because things tasting nice are pleasurable

i dont eat animals cos it gives me pleasure to eat an animal, i eat because i have to, what i do to the food i eat is a separate thing entirely

i dont eat broccoli because eating plants gives me pleasure... catch my drift

disagree. you do eat meat for pleasure. It's not essential is it

you in no way shape or form eat meat because you have to

[kidshuffle]

i have no ethical problems with eating meat; just the issues about how you get it. if i stay around here, i eventually want to only eat what i kill, whether that be hunting a deer every season, or raising chickens or whatever. eating is natures way of keeping the population in check, and at the end of the day, killing on that level is no different to me than eating any plant matter. my main issue with meat is overindulgence and waste that goes into the modern system.