Volume or EQ?

[BYTEME]

I was thinking while making my tracks, about if certain instrumets should hit certain volumes, or can they ALL be the same volume and have an EQ on everything allowing everything to pass through eachother?

Whichis it?

1. Volume of certain instruments.
2. Eq everything to pass through eachother all at the same volume.

And then I also wonder about Limiting/Compression.
But I just don't know how to use those so I leave the default FL Studio limiter on most of the time.

Do most professional tracks use sidechain on everything accompenied by limitiers, compressions, and EQ over every single sound? I just don't understand how my stuff sounds sometimes stuck, weak, and bad volumes all the time as opposed to professional production like Knife Party. (Just for example)

[BYTEME]

I keep my instruments as:

kick at -6db.
Snare a little below -6db but not -7db.
Hat at -10 to -8db.
Lead at -12 to -8db.
Mid range instruments around -14db.
Backround arps and pads at -16db.
Sub bass at -18 to -22db.

[wub]

I hate to give a generic response, but have you read the Moneyshot thread?

[BYTEME]

It seems like an unorganized list about Skrillex links, granulated stuff, and reese bass discussion.

[wub]

So that's a no then.

Gain structure & mixing aka the Money Shot thread - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=74832

Read that, should answer all your questions.

[mthrfnk]

Numbers are all well and guide for a guide, at the sake of giving you the age old response; use your ears.

Personally I use EQ to cut stuff into defined ranges, i.e. mids shouldn't be going down into your sub range. Aside from that it's all about playing with your volumes both at source and in the mixer post-FX.

Also you mentioned Knife Party, from what I've read and heard he's obsessive about mixing and surgical EQ's, imo he does some excellent mixdowns and the technical clarity of all his KP/Pendulum stuff is great - regardless of whether you like the music (and the way KP's stuff is limited to hell )

[BYTEME]

Is FL Studios default Limiter good for deep sub and clean drum samples?

I'm asking and concerned about mixing an production because I've been really wanting to try my hardest at making a really good sounding track using JUST a sub bassline, and 909 drums at 120 BPM.
I'm having issues with the 909 kick mudding the sub, and the sub bass NOTES aren't sounding clear-pitch like Skream. :/

I don't know what I'm doing wrong because my bass sucks at clear sounding pitch on some notes.
I WANT to know how to make it all better.

[AxeD]

Your stuff doesn't sound as good because mixing music is a hugely complicated artistic process.
You can have all the right sounds and arrangement and it can still sound off in numerous ways.

You can EQ a 'notch' for your kick, so it doesn't clash with the sub.
Clear sub bass is tough, as it will sound different on every system. Maybe distort it a little.
Add some clearly harmonics.

[mthrfnk]

Is FL Studios default Limiter good for deep sub and clean drum samples?

I'm asking and concerned about mixing an production because I've been really wanting to try my hardest at making a really good sounding track using JUST a sub bassline, and 909 drums at 120 BPM.
I'm having issues with the 909 kick mudding the sub, and the sub bass NOTES aren't sounding clear-pitch like Skream. :/

I don't know what I'm doing wrong because my bass sucks at clear sounding pitch on some notes.
I WANT to know how to make it all better.

Why are using FL Limter on your sub? What are you using as the source for the sub?

[Monowan]

I think he meant FL Limiter on the master. You should ditch that and keep your master channel empty until the final mixdown

[BYTEME]

I'm using the default limiter on the master channel.
But when I ditch that it sounds quiet as a mouse.

Also I'm using CS40 headphones. They hear between 20hz-20khz. I plan on buying Mogul headphones because they have a larger sound driver, and hear as low as 10hz.

I usually use NI Massive or 3xOSC for the sine sub bass. On Massive I do not apply any EQ or filter effects/etc.

But I do move the attack on envelope 4 to the very start, and the release all the way down to the left. And the decay all the way up to telhe right. To make sure the sine wave comes in fully sustained and at the beginning.

I sort of do the same with the CUT tab on 3xOSC.

Sometimes I apply a parametric equalizer and lowpass it to whereever the highest note ends.
If it goes over where the snare hits, I'll notch it on the same frequency the snare hits.

But the kick is an issue definitely. I just don't know what to do with that.

Also is the first 909 kick suppose to have this weird "click" before it or is that just the sample?
Should i cut that click out in Audacity?

[mthrfnk]

I'm using the default limiter on the master channel.
But when I ditch that it sounds quiet as a mouse.

Also I'm using CS40 headphones. They hear between 20hz-20khz. I plan on buying Mogul headphones because they have a larger sound driver, and hear as low as 10hz.

I usually use NI Massive or 3xOSC for the sine sub bass. On Massive I do not apply any EQ or filter effects/etc.

But I do move the attack on envelope 4 to the very start, and the release all the way down to the left. And the decay all the way up to telhe right. To make sure the sine wave comes in fully sustained and at the beginning.

I sort of do the same with the CUT tab on 3xOSC.

Sometimes I apply a parametric equalizer and lowpass it to whereever the highest note ends.
If it goes over where the snare hits, I'll notch it on the same frequency the snare hits.

But the kick is an issue definitely. I just don't know what to do with that.

Also is the first 909 kick suppose to have this weird "click" before it or is that just the sample?
Should i cut that click out in Audacity?

1) You can't hear 10Hz, pretty much all headphones drop off as you get closer to 20Hz. Monitors are probably a better option than more headphones in terms of frequency range and flat EQ. I wouldn't trust any headphones in replicating <20ish Hz unless they're Audeze LCD2/3's
2) Sounds like you're doing the right thing in Massive/3xOSC, if you're really not sure about getting a pure sine - use Audacity to generate a C note or something then chuck it in the sampler and just play notes to repitch it.
3) Your sub shouldn't be going anywhere near your snare - snares usually hit in the 200Hz region, sub bass should be below 100Hz at least, check your octaves.
4) The click on the kick might be to do with the attack, happens sometimes with Sub bass samples, it's up to you to cut if you don't like it.
5) Theres no problem using the limter on the master, loads of people do it - I do, helps me to hear what the end track will sound like.

To me it sounds like you're struggling to hear the sub on your headphones and might be playing your sub notes an octave too high. Try lowering them, this may help with the interference between the kicks and snares. Alternatively, if you want some higher harmonics - use some detuned saws (in the style of a reese) and lowpass them just to let some growly harmonics through and saturate this perhaps. This can give you a deep but warm bass that's audible on smaller systems that perform poorly trying to play pure sine subs.

[BYTEME]

Does a triangle sub bass have more audible harmonics than a sine sub bass?

[BYTEME]

Sorry for all the questions but one last one:

Where should I move the Cutoff on a Lowpass filter on Massive and how much should the LfO on the cut off be spread for the wub to work correctly? Lately I have issues with using an LFO on the cutoff. I just don't know where to put it. I'll just experiment with it later today.

[Monowan]

Try using Massive's tube on your sub to add some harmonics, don't overdo it though, sub basses are supposed to be felt more than heard. Or you could try another plugin, Voxengo LF Punch is great but not free.
Getting kick and bass to sound right together is a bitch and always will be, either bring down your sub or cut some lows on your kicks, try a subtle or less subtle sidechain, depends of the track.
About the limiter, I used to have it on the master from the get go just like you (even worst, Maximus) and I ran into a lot of problems until I got rid of it and learned proper gain staging, thx to dsf. It does sound quieter at first (crank up the volume of your computer, not your master) but you'll get a clearer look at what's happening in your mix and once you get used to it things get simpler. Once everything sounds alright, nothing clipping, you can slap whatever you want on the master channel to make it louder.

[BYTEME]

Can I slap a bitcrusher on the master?! (herp derp face)

I'm joking but thank you a lot for all the advice, it helps in my progression in production.
Thanks.

[NinjaEdit]

Volume (attenuation) > EQ

You want your track to have "depth", like things are different distances away, which would mean different volumes.

Actually this would usually be the case, like the order on a channel strip:
Volume > pan > EQ > dynamics (eg compression)

and I think personally, on average:
Volume > pan > EQ > dynamics > harmonic content (eg overdrive) > Spacial effects (reverb, delay) > Modulation (eg chorus)

Sometimes, like snares, it just needs reverb more than distortion, though. Nine-point-five times out of ten I don't like chorus-like effects.

EDIT: Tuning might actually be the most important.

[press]

if only it was easy as saying it was one way or the other, its both. figuring out how and when to use one way or the other is the hard part....keep workign on tunes and eventually youll know why/when/how to use which methods are best in each situation.

[__________]

Can I slap a bitcrusher on the master?! (herp derp face)

I'm joking but thank you a lot for all the advice, it helps in my progression in production.
Thanks.

Dude you think that's a joke question but it's the one which would probably help you the most right now rather than asking where the 'right' place to set your LFO is. I used to regularly (and still do but not as much) put a bitcrusher on my master channel.
With like 10x downsampling or 10bit resolution, you will be able to instantly hear any elements of your mix which are over-complicated or aren't cutting through enough. Obviously the high frequencies get pretty gnarly as you begin to downsample, but it does literally simplify the waveform and I find it can be a useful technique.

[chesh]

Me personally, I was ALWAYS an EQ fan. Better range, easier control. Although some might argue this....