Dubstep becoming too dark and masculine?

[elgato]

i dont want to be a dick, but this is a little annoying.

That's ok. I did phrase my opinion problably a tad more provocative than necessary.

i dont like most dubstep that i hear now but...the darker-than-thou thing is at least 6 months out of date, more like 12. if anything the balance is with silly ravey wobblers nowadays, and a lack of po-face! i cant understand people who are still characterising the scene as dominated by dark meditative halfstep

and in any case, do you really think that refixes are the only other thing happening in the scene?

as i see it, plenty of people in dubstep are still breaking boundaries

I know there is more out there than just an angry wobble or a cheecky refix. Still, it's annoying me how much and especially how fast dubstep is loosing its subtlety and inventiveness. It's a bit silly to claim dubstep as a non-formulaic genre when the formula is clearly kicking in. It's a pity, because this formula surely isn't the most interesting one.

Oh and about the darkness. I am all for music that explores all possible emotions, but who on earth decided that it always should be dark? I, for one, would love to hear some bright dubstep.

im not saying dubstep isnt formulaic, but i dont think that the characterture of dark hard dubstep is appropriate anymore, at least not for the central scene. all the biggest tunes seem to me to be high energy, if still with a snare on the half bar, and most of the big dancefloor stuff that i hear is silly rather than dark. but i would agree that its still a very masculine sound

either way i do mainly agree with you, compared to a few years back its a different thing, much less diversity in the central sound. but its seemed that way for quite a while, and theres still loads of amazing stuff coming out of it, so i try to look at it half full...

[ufo over easy]

but i dont think that the characterture of dark hard dubstep is appropriate anymore, at least not for the central scene. all the biggest tunes seem to me to be high energy, if still with a snare on the half bar, and most of the big dancefloor stuff that i hear is silly rather than dark

that's exactly what I was going for re: the distinction between hard and dark. so often I hear people talking about a tune - "oh mate, that's fucking dark," and it's just not. half the time it's just stupid horror movie samples and big aggressive bass sounds. boring.

if we're talking about masculinity, it's like an overtly masculine interpretation of darkness that's dominating.

[elgato]

i think you're getting the wrong end of the stick elegato, this isn't about halfstep per se, but the over dominance of extremely dark agressive wobble/drop contest stuff, compared to the lack of percussive/groove/swung stuff in many sets right now.

sorry my comment was probably a little out of context, and quite trivial in a way, i responded to that post alone (about the term 'darker than thou halfstep'), it probably didnt fit well within the overall discussion. because i agree that theres a substantial tendency to masculine, hard sounds in the scene now, but i dont feel that dark is necessarily the word to characterise the central sound (at least in the clubs ive been)... to use the dnb analogy, it puts me more in mind of jump up than techstep. although youngsta and hatcha are going a bit on that tip. i suppose it depends how far you look as well, i guess nowadays i dont listen to so much from up and coming producers, so i dont know what they're sounding like

[elgato]

but i dont think that the characterture of dark hard dubstep is appropriate anymore, at least not for the central scene. all the biggest tunes seem to me to be high energy, if still with a snare on the half bar, and most of the big dancefloor stuff that i hear is silly rather than dark

that's exactly what I was going for re: the distinction between hard and dark. so often I hear people talking about a tune - "oh mate, that's fucking dark," and it's just not. half the time it's just stupid horror movie samples and big aggressive bass sounds. boring.

i know, but i guess i dont feel i hear so many horror samples anymore, more dub police-esque sillyness...

masculine and aggressive is how i would call it. but maybe we're talking about different things

[ufo over easy]

i know, but i guess i dont feel i hear so many horror samples anymore, more dub police-esque sillyness...

masculine and aggressive is how i would call it. but maybe we're talking about different things

we're not man - I'm sure we're talking about the same thing, and it's a serious problem. it's really common for people to refer to silly wobbly over the top tunes as "dark", because they have massive predictable drops and are produced so as to be incredibly loud and hard hitting on the dancefloor. it's also really common for dnb fans to talk about the overly aggressive, hard stuff as dark.

the comparison I always go back to when talking about dark vs. aggressive is rooted in drum and bass. compare source direct at their most sinister with someone like limewax or recent tech itch releases - producers who are supposed to be really dark... it's just stupid. horror movie samples and massively distorted, over compressed drums and reese bass lines just sound silly compared to genuinely spooky shit like stonekiller or the cult

I agree, we're not hearing so many horror movie samples and stuff anymore, so it's not as immediately comparable to stuff like tech itch and limewax... but the aesthetic is the same - huge drops, produced so as to be as loud as possible... but if anything that just makes the same immediate danger more subtle, and more dangerous.

[elgato]

i agree about peoples' perception of darkness being different

but again, i hear more stuff from the central players that makes me think of Body Rock and that kind of stuff than limewax

but maybe im not listening in the same places, these judgements are all based on individual experience after all

[elgato]

huge drops, produced so as to be as loud as possible... but if anything that just makes the same immediate danger more subtle, and more dangerous.

that i agree with, for sure. i guess ive more or less given up worrying what the scene does, i feel live and let live, enjoy what i can of it, and run nights with/dj/produce stuff i believe in. very apathetic of me for sure...

[ufo over easy]

that i agree with, for sure. i guess ive more or less given up worrying what the scene does, i feel live and let live, enjoy what i can of it, and run nights with/dj/produce stuff i believe in. very apathetic of me for sure...

hehe.. I can't see what any of us can do other than that though really - play the stuff we like, support the stuff we like. I really hate feeling like a moaner, so that seems like the best way forward!

[elgato]

that i agree with, for sure. i guess ive more or less given up worrying what the scene does, i feel live and let live, enjoy what i can of it, and run nights with/dj/produce stuff i believe in. very apathetic of me for sure...

hehe.. I can't see what any of us can do other than that though really - play the stuff we like, support the stuff we like. I really hate feeling like a moaner, so that seems like the best way forward!

yeh i hate to sound like a born again christian but whatever lol

[misk]

dark and masculine?

[thesynthesist]

oh YUCK!

[d-nile]

I heartily concur with Ben and Elgato - but without some more experimental DJs breaking through, I can't see things changing - a lot of the big djs aren't gonna take risks and play something that doesn't fit in the template so it's gonna be tough to hear tunes which don't just go wah wah wah wump wump etc...


I totally agree with your bodyrock comparison - not feeling the plasticity of certain tunes and those nasty lead lines..

But you have got to be in it to win it and it's inevitable that with a scene (d?)evolving things get split into different sounds...

So keep up the emperimental shit - and lets hope that the metal/dubstep hybrid never fully happens...

Funnily enough I had high hopes for dub police when girlfriend came out. Based on that initial signing it could have been oh so different!

Now that L Wiz are 'in' the scene I think their stuff sounds a lot more like everyone elses - not to diss 'cause codiene city is ace - but I much prefer the double time and rolling congas of g/friend...

[entheogen]

'Sub' is one of my favourite L-Wiz tracks, in fact it's probably one of my favourite Dubstep Tracks.

[d-nile]

oh shit yeah I forgot about that - I haven't really listened to it much

will dig it out tomorrow to check it out - cheers for reminding me I own another L Wiz record!

[fushimi]

I think it's difficult to analyse the scene cos it's on such shifting sands - look at it from one perspective and you'll see stuff that confirms any point of view.

Re. Dub Police, yeah they do have a kind of house sound, but I think L-Wiz is a bit of an exception to that. The Cockney Thug style has become self-parody within the space of one song (quickest ever?), now Rusko has dropped the dub influences to make some 3kout/Spongebob clones. And don't forget Caspa did the Moments in Love remix when he wasn't trying to be the Guy Ritchie of the dubstep scene.

I think what this has turned into is a "why are there so many "jump up" bangers in sets these days, and the answer to that is pretty simple - N-TYPE's physical energy levels. He can play a 3 hour set of mostly bangers and have the energy to be going mental, skanking, MCing (sometimes) and generally transmitting the energy to the crowd to keep them dancing. He can pull off that kind of set, not a journey, more a 3 hour car chase. He's big, so lots of people are copying his style.

[claw]

i like songs that reflect an artists mood/vision or whatever they intended, and i like songs that have an effect on you when you listen to them....to me, my music is my outlet and escape, and alot of it ends up being dark, heavy and really aggressive but to me it still takes you on a journey....to each their own i guess

[entheogen]

oh shit yeah I forgot about that - I haven't really listened to it much

will dig it out tomorrow to check it out - cheers for reminding me I own another L Wiz record!

Let me know how you get on. Gotta love that second drop, it's a banger!

[misk]

Theres room for everyone here, and as claw said, to each his/her own. I think that the dubstep sound has shifted recently, but who cares? This is a message board, thus, this discussion, but if you dont feel the music thats out, then go out and make something you feel. with any luck someone else will feel it too, and then you can define a new sound that is more in line with what you feel dubstep "should" be.

i mean really, this is music, its not something you can own. I dont believe that anyone, not even the mala, and loefah, and horsepower productions "own" dubstep. thats kind of the beauty of it. some people gave birth to it, and its grown beyond the individuals that craft it, and become it's own entity, autonomous in it's own right.

Its not our job to try and control it. Its not our job to "keep it underground". We participate in the glory of this music we've all come together for because we love it. and thats all that matters.

[claw]

just occured to me theres some good pissed off dub i just updated in my myspace player...check out some of em

www.myspace.com/binarystorm

'ruckus' and 'freedom' and 'texas trunk' are all pretty heavy

[blackdown]

Its not our job to try and control it. Its not our job to "keep it underground". We participate in the glory of this music we've all come together for because we love it. and thats all that matters.

To be honest, this kind of hippy shit will get you nowhere. Dubstep was build by people who actually went out and built what could be, not sat back and basked in the glory of what already was. Lots of times recently I've been out and seen sets and I dont "love it". And having seen d&b ruined by some of the same problems, "all that matters" is that the scene regains some of the ballance it needs right now.