The Wire

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:28 pm

Soi wrote:
i thought they were like batman&robin from da ghettoo or smt
apparently season 3 is an absolute must...
will pick the series up again.

haha.. some serious spoiler action agwan. giving away such massive stuff is not on really

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:42 pm

Yeah that's a bit gutting really, was quite a big shock when I watched it.

joenicedj · Post by **joenicedj** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:52 pm

UFO over easy wrote:bump! just finished season 4 after starting the first only a couple of months ago.. totally addicted. I'm probably going to get the DVDs and watch them all over again now. I reckon season 4 was the best so far season 4 was the perfect balance, and I thought they dealt with the schools thing really well without being too preachy. the mayoral election/politics stuff was a really interesting addition too.

Nothing was better than the 4th season -- nothing...and that's after i said nothing would be better than season 3. Many tv critics were saying this season of The Wire was not only the best season in the show's history -- it was the best individual season of TV ever. I'm inclined to agree with the critics. I didn't think anything would be better than the 2nd season of The Chappelle Show.....then The Wire season 4 comes along.

Season 4 was brilliant for a few reasons:

1. It answered this question, "How do young guys like Omar and Marlo gain such power in the streets at such a young age?" The answer -- it starts in middle school. Kids like Namond, Duquan, Randy and Michael are most impressionable and a choice or two could determine the path of their lives. and -- the program showed the 4 choices you can make:

You can be forced into the lifestyle -- even though you don't want to do it. (Namond -- WeeBay's son)
You can make a deal with the devil and you have no way out. (Michael)
You can try to run from it. (Randy)
You don't know what else to do, but you know this lifestyle isn't for you. (DuQuan)

Over time, you "move up" and become a "corner kid" like Poot or Bodie. If you survive the drug deals gone bad and the police, you become someone like Stringer, Wee-Bay or Snoop/Chris. If you survive that -- you become Marlo or Omar or someone like Prop Joe.

2. The show eloquently displayed the issues in the Baltimore City Public School System. My girlfriend worked as a middle school principal in Baltimore City. Everything you saw on the show -- she and i have talked about after she comes home from work. There are corner kids in school. There are kids that live in group homes. There are kids that are homeless. There are kids that don't know any better. There are kids that do well -- despite all the distractions. There are kids that want no parts of the streets. There are kids that want to go to high school. There are kids that don't want to be parents at the age of 14. How can you expect these kids to learn and perform in schools when every day is a matter of life and death -- LITERALLY -- life and death?

3. The election...etc. I'm gonna focus on one thing -- Mayor Carcetti. He was a city councilman -- that decided to run for mayor and didnt think he'd win because he's a white guy in a predominately black city. A few things happen, he gets wise politically and he wins. The members of his staff knows that he wants to use his mayoral status to make a run at governor. At the same time - he ruins the city. All of the aforementioned is fictitious -- straight from the show.

Martin O'Malley -- former city councilman. Makes a run at mayor and no one but him believes he has a chance to win because Baltimore hasnt had a white mayor in nearly 20 years. A few things happen, he gets wise politically and he wins. He's in office a few months and he's already talking about making a run at governor of Maryland. During that time, the city falls by the wayside because he's got his eyes on something else -- being governor. All of the aforementioned is true -- real life.

Coincidence? Art imitating life?

4. McNulty. For the first three seasons -- he was making a run at becoming the best TV cop ever. This season -- the writers made him virtually insignificant -- yet, everytime he was on the show, his impact was felt.

5. Omar. I've said it before and i'll say it again -- he's the best individual character on TV. He's not untouchable (case in point -- Stringer and Omar Barksdale) but he's damn close to it. Any move he makes affects everyone -- the police, the drug lords, the corner kids -- everyone. When was the last time a supporting character on a TV show controlled the show?

By the way -- they're filming season 5 right now. On my way to work this past week, i saw the film trucks on Biddle St and Broadway....i'm curious to see what angle the writers explore this season. Will they cover the media and how crime is reported on tv and radio? Will they focus on one of the kids and his family? Will they focus on the drugs? I'm genuinely curious....

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:22 pm

Corpsey wrote:Yeah that's a bit gutting really, was quite a big shock when I watched it.

seriously, I was shaking for about five minutes. had to rewind and watch it a few times... 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

joe nice wrote: By the way -- they're filming season 5 right now. On my way to work this past week, i saw the film trucks on Biddle St and Broadway....i'm curious to see what angle the writers explore this season. Will they cover the media and how crime is reported on tv and radio? Will they focus on one of the kids and his family? Will they focus on the drugs? I'm genuinely curious....

yeah they're saying it's going to be the last one ever innit? I'm pretty interested as to the Greeks role in this one.. the reappearance of his henchman at the end of the season can't just have been a one off - Omar's huge robbery and the development of Proposition Joe's relationship with the greek must be connected. Maybe there'll be an Omar vs. The Greek story arc in season 5?

A lot of people have been talking about the media as well.. maybe, but they kind of dealt with that in the last season with the mayoral election. Who knows though?

perkalerk215 · Post by **perkalerk215** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:40 pm

rickyricardo · Post by **rickyricardo** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:28 pm

joenice wrote: 3. The election...etc. I'm gonna focus on one thing -- Mayor Carcetti. He was a city councilman -- that decided to run for mayor and didnt think he'd win because he's a white guy in a predominately black city. A few things happen, he gets wise politically and he wins. The members of his staff knows that he wants to use his mayoral status to make a run at governor. At the same time - he ruins the city. All of the aforementioned is fictitious -- straight from the show.

Martin O'Malley -- former city councilman. Makes a run at mayor and no one but him believes he has a chance to win because Baltimore hasnt had a white mayor in nearly 20 years. A few things happen, he gets wise politically and he wins. He's in office a few months and he's already talking about making a run at governor of Maryland. During that time, the city falls by the wayside because he's got his eyes on something else -- being governor. All of the aforementioned is true -- real life.

Coincidence? Art imitating life?

It's funny b/c on one of the commentaries for season 3, the writers say that Carcetti is *not* supposed to be a be Martin O'Malley...but it's soooo blatently obvious.

I also like how by Season 4, Carcetti seemed only marginally less of a scumbag than when he was introduced in Season 3. That's one of the great things about that show, is that they actually let the characters develop into deep, complex human beings. Case in point w/ Bodie....I mean, that's the same guy that shot Wallace way back in Season One, but by the end of Season 4, you're feeling sorry for the guy. That's just brilliant character development.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:36 pm

Yeah that's one of the triumphs of the show- massive cast of characters, almost all complex and believable as human beings, with no moral simplifications.

schamotnik · Post by **schamotnik** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:45 pm

nice one joe.. you've summed it up quite brilliantly. exactely why I watch this show.

been hooked to it ever since I first got my fingers on it.
was quite an eye-opener for me since this is really one the first shows on tv that really take a closer look behind the whole gangsta dynamic in american cities without really taking sides or making moral judgments. Just a realistic depiction (at least it seems to me) about the way things are. my favorite season are 3 and 4, contrarily to other shows it has become better and better.

the only thing I would add about the things I loved in season 4 is the way the police officers and the gangsters kind of connected. mcnulty-bode, carver-bode&crew, bunny-weebay/na shows the way that above being police-officers and gangsters they are very human and that they have a mutual respect, despite what they are doing.
and a very important component was marlo taking over. and the way things have changed. marlo being from the newer generation, that is even more cruel than the older one and where killing has become absolutely random.
season 3 was brilliant as well. the whole hamsterdam idea was quite a nice take on the idea of what would happen if drugs were legalized and controlled.

I'm really psyched for season 5. As it's gonna be the last season it should I'm sure they will have a brilliant end.

joenicedj · Post by **joenicedj** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:36 pm

RickyRicardo wrote:It's funny b/c on one of the commentaries for season 3, the writers say that Carcetti is *not* supposed to be a be Martin O'Malley...but it's soooo blatently obvious.

Agreed.

RickyRicardo wrote: I also like how by Season 4, Carcetti seemed only marginally less of a scumbag than when he was introduced in Season 3. That's one of the great things about that show, is that they actually let the characters develop into deep, complex human beings. Case in point w/ Bodie....I mean, that's the same guy that shot Wallace way back in Season One, but by the end of Season 4, you're feeling sorry for the guy. That's just brilliant character development.

Brilliant observation RR. Same thing for D'Angelo Barksdale. You hated him in season 1, by season 3, you knew his time was up and you had to feel bad for him...

Schamotnik wrote:nice one joe.. you've summed it up quite brilliantly. exactely why I watch this show.

THANKS !

Schamotnik wrote:the only thing I would add about the things I loved in season 4 is the way the police officers and the gangsters kind of connected. mcnulty-bode, carver-bode&crew, bunny-weebay/na shows the way that above being police-officers and gangsters they are very human and that they have a mutual respect, despite what they are doing.
and a very important component was marlo taking over. and the way things have changed. marlo being from the newer generation, that is even more cruel than the older one and where killing has become absolutely random. season 3 was brilliant as well. the whole hamsterdam idea was quite a nice take on the idea of what would happen if drugs were legalized and controlled.

Abother brilliant observation re: mutual respect between the good guys and bad guys. It's there. Each party knows the other has a job to do. The police - rid the streets of drugs and crime. The drug guys - make money. If someone has to get hurt -- so be it.

excellent call on the subplots too. There's a few more:

1. Kima and her girfriend and the baby? When was the last time a lesbian had a relationship in a tv show? On top of that -- place a volatile relationship and an in-vitro baby? I couldnt make this stuff up. SIDE NOTE: I think Kima is drop-dead gorgeous.

2. What about Daniels and any of the following:
his relationship with the D.A.? His marriage? His rise to power w/in the police department? His desire to get out of the police department and go to law school?

3. Prez and his relationship with the kids? His struggles as a first year teacher?

4. Bunny and his newfound relationship with Namond? Wow! This one gets me...everyone on the streets knows who Namond is -- simply on the basis of his father, WeeBay. WeeBay gets that respect on the streets, and to a certain extent, Namond gets that respect too. What if people on the streets found out that Namond was living with an ex-cop? What if people in jail found out that WeeBay endorsed this move? Will Omar continue to protect WeeBay while he's behind bars? Look at it this way -- Omar had his cousin killed. He can easily do WeeBay in.

joenicedj · Post by **joenicedj** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:41 pm

by the way -- i need to be on the show.

JoeNice for The Wire !

j rock · Post by **j rock** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:46 pm

i LOVE this show. quite possibly the best hbo series ever.

schamotnik · Post by **schamotnik** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:54 am

joenice wrote:JoeNice for The Wire !

haha, that would be fun! so what's it gonna be? a gangster or a policeman?
I would play one of those 'wiggas' from season 2. That was another brilliant idea... white people who actually think they are black, doesn't get much better than that.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:21 pm

I thought D'Angelo was a sympathetic character from the very first episode onwards.

FSTZ · Post by **FSTZ** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:55 pm

Corpsey wrote:I thought D'Angelo was a sympathetic character from the very first episode onwards.

yeah D was a good guy. I'm actually quite sympathetic to all of the gangstas except fo Marlow, that fool is cold as fuck.

but D and Stringer, they were "good" bad guys

FSTZ · Post by **FSTZ** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:00 pm

and oh yeah..

ziggy was a total idiot

rickyricardo · Post by **rickyricardo** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:15 pm

It's hard to call any of these guys strictly "good" or "bad" though. D definitely had a good heart, but he did his fair share of fucked up things too. D's whole freedom in the first season came at the expense of other people's lives.

Stringer was probably the most cold, calculating character in the series. Granted he was nowhere near as ruthless as Marlo, but that was really only out of business necessity than some kind of genuine concern for life. When it was in his own self-interest, though, he would double-cross anyone.

and yeah...Ziggy was a moron. Part of me wishes that they showed what happened to him in Seasons 3 or 4, b/c it couldn't have been good.....yikes!

joenicedj · Post by **joenicedj** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:32 pm

RickyRicardo wrote:Stringer was probably the most cold, calculating character in the series. Granted he was nowhere near as ruthless as Marlo, but that was really only out of business necessity than some kind of genuine concern for life. When it was in his own self-interest, though, he would double-cross anyone.

Agreed.

Stringer was as cold as a stepmother's kiss. He's also calculating and educated. Stringer was in the game for making money. He was taking econ classes @ BCCC (Baltimore City Community College) and applying the theories to his "business". Marlo -- that guy is evil. He gives the devil ideas.

Question for the group.....are the actors typecast?

For example -- the other night, i'm watching Law & Order and Omar (Michael K Williams) was on the show as the rapist/burglar.
The week before, Namond (Julito McCullum) was on another show as a corner kid.

Are the actors so good that you can only remember them for what they've done/will do on The Wire?

Honestly -- when you see Dominic West on some movie, you're gonna say, "Yo, what's McNulty doing in this?" It's happened to me.....

thoughts please......

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:38 pm

I didn't think D'Angelo was ever a "bad" bad guy as such. From the outset you could tell he was clever, and that his heart wasn't totally in the game. He was teaching bodie and co. chess, and encouraging them to live right from the very first episode innit.. the writers really made an effort to make him seem sympathetic, despite how he won his freedom. That storyline, pretty much the first in the show, already brings in that idea of a moral grey area that underpins the entire show

joenice wrote: Stringer was as cold as a stepmother's kiss. He's also calculating and educated. Stringer was in the game for making money. He was taking econ classes @ BCCC (Baltimore City Community College) and applying the theories to his "business". Marlo -- that guy is evil. He gives the devil ideas.

Marlow is evil, but he's clever too. Just being ruthless doesn't really get you anywhere, you need brains. If it was just about violence snoop and chris would be running things..

Despite Stringer's business skills, both him and Avon allowed themselves to be brought down by little, petty mistakes that escalated. Marlow hasn't made a mistake yet - he calmly waited the whole situation out, took his time and quietly took over. His subtle manipulation of the kids in the 4th season was absolutely brutal too.

rickyricardo · Post by **rickyricardo** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:46 pm

joenice wrote: Honestly -- when you see Dominic West on some movie, you're gonna say, "Yo, what's McNulty doing in this?" It's happened to me.....

Haha, actually it took me about 4 episodes to stop thinking of Bunk as the police chief from "Hackers"

FSTZ · Post by **FSTZ** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:49 pm

and talk about a mofo that cant get his shit together...

bubbs wins

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