Mono vs. Stereo for Club Systems

[skimpi]

yeah but m8 in da club all that matters is tha bass anyway ennit? No one goes out and screams like 'ooooh that wicked treble its makin ma balls tingle'

[tekdiggity]

yeah but m8 in da club all that matters is tha bass anyway ennit? No one goes out and screams like 'ooooh that wicked treble its makin ma balls tingle'

lmao

[Electric_Head]

Alright, so i have a question. Most people who make commercial music have their highs set very very wide. This results in an extreme lack of lows when you solo the mid channel of a song. You can hear this too, just import a commercial house or dubstep song and solo the mid channel on an eq or whatever.

Now my question is, doesn't this matter for clubs? As far as i know, club systems are always mono. Doesn't the lack of highs and even high mids ruin the song when it's played in a club? Cause it sure ruins the sound when it's played in mono at home...

I was reading your comments over at BIAB about your dislike for DSF.

[RmoniK]

Club systems being mono is becoming more and more a myth as very few club systems are actually mono nowadays. But remember, that even on a mono system, mono ≠ mid signal. Mono is the two channels (left & right) summed to one, so it includes the sides except things that get left out due to phase cancellation.

i don't think you get the concept of mid/side channels. Mids are exactly that, the left and right channel summed together. Sides are what's left over, so sides are actually mono themselves, just one channel being the phase opposite of the other channel. If you were to sum the sidechannel, you'd be left with silence.

[drake89]

what are you all even on about? if you use stereo wideners your shit will get canceled out on a mono system, so don't use them if you plan on getting your tunes played out in mono. do your tunes actually get played out...and in mono? can't you just make a proper mix that sounds good in stereo and mono, like a normal human being?

[RmoniK]

Wow, calm down, i'm just looking for some info from people who've made tunes that are played live. If noticed the same thing with any commercial sounding song though, the mid channel barely has any content in the highs. Which makes me wonder if they do some post processing on special mono versions of their songs.

[skimpi]

OK guys you dont seem to get it, a mid or mono channel isnt the two sides summed together, it is information that is exactly the same in the left and right speaker, which makes it seem straight down the middle. Sides is not the phase opposite of the other, that is a way to get width but a very stupid one, things seem wider when the information isnt the same in both speakers, so being phase opposites will do that, but of course when summed to mono it will cancel. however if the two sides are completely different, and not just phase opposite, then summing wont cancel out. just like when double tracking a guitar or summat, you record the same riff twice so that its different, so when panned left and right, it makes it seem wider and info in both channels isnt the same, but then summing wont cancel it out as they are totally different signals.

Mid is when you mute the sides so that you only left with whats the same in both speakers.
SIdes it when you mute the mid so that the left and right has totally different signal and theres nothing left in the 'middle' or centre or whatever.

Im not talking about a stupid plugin that creates a mid and side image here though, i dont know about that. Im just saying having a wide signal in a good and correct way wont sound shit in mono, but cheating and just phase reversing the signal will.

[drake89]

Mid is when you mute the sides so that you only left with whats the same in both speakers.
SIdes it when you mute the mid so that the left and right has totally different signal and theres nothing left in the 'middle' or centre or whatever.

Im not talking about a stupid plugin that creates a mid and side image here though, i dont know about that. Im just saying having a wide signal in a good and correct way wont sound shit in mono, but cheating and just phase reversing the signal will.

how and when do you isolate the mid and sides? In mixing? Can you do this easily in ableton with stock stuff? Is there something you slap on the master or do you have to put something on each channel?

[mthrfnk]

A lot of EQ's have M/S options, I use it a lot, specifically for concentrating the low end on the mid and boosting the high end on the side.

[skimpi]

yeah like he said, you can get things to do that, but also, in logic, with the gain plugin, if you invert the phase of one of the sides, then you are left with just the sides as it cancels the middle, but then you obviously have an inverted channel, and it sounds really weird, if you move your head around the phasing fucks with your ears, you can just isolate the middle though, only sum to mono

[RmoniK]

OK guys you dont seem to get it, a mid or mono channel isnt the two sides summed together, it is information that is exactly the same in the left and right speaker, which makes it seem straight down the middle. Sides is not the phase opposite of the other, that is a way to get width but a very stupid one, things seem wider when the information isnt the same in both speakers, so being phase opposites will do that, but of course when summed to mono it will cancel. however if the two sides are completely different, and not just phase opposite, then summing wont cancel out. just like when double tracking a guitar or summat, you record the same riff twice so that its different, so when panned left and right, it makes it seem wider and info in both channels isnt the same, but then summing wont cancel it out as they are totally different signals.

Mid is when you mute the sides so that you only left with whats the same in both speakers.
SIdes it when you mute the mid so that the left and right has totally different signal and theres nothing left in the 'middle' or centre or whatever.

Im not talking about a stupid plugin that creates a mid and side image here though, i dont know about that. Im just saying having a wide signal in a good and correct way wont sound shit in mono, but cheating and just phase reversing the signal will.

You're the one that doesn't seem to get it. I'm not gonna go into the maths here, but when you sum two channels together, you are left with a mono channel of what was exactly the same on both sides. Thus, the mid channel is gotten exactly by that technique (how else do you think mid/side processors work?), by summing both channels.

The side channel is what you get by substracting both channels (so left + phase inverted right) and is also MONO. By substracting, you cancel out the mids and put the sides in the same phase, thus just putting them in the middle with twice the volume. Obviously after the processing this is summed back to a stereo channel and added to the mids.

This is also completely besides the point of my question, but eh.

[RandoRando]

Mid is when you mute the sides so that you only left with whats the same in both speakers.
SIdes it when you mute the mid so that the left and right has totally different signal and theres nothing left in the 'middle' or centre or whatever.

Im not talking about a stupid plugin that creates a mid and side image here though, i dont know about that. Im just saying having a wide signal in a good and correct way wont sound shit in mono, but cheating and just phase reversing the signal will.

how and when do you isolate the mid and sides? In mixing? Can you do this easily in ableton with stock stuff? Is there something you slap on the master or do you have to put something on each channel?

abletons EQ8 has mid side processing, look at "mode" on the bottom. default is left/right.

also right click where it says EQ8 and put hi quality on