The Sampling // Copyright // Legal thread

[Dj Rephlex]

I've always loved doing remixes but they're all forced to stay in my DAW beccause no matter what website I upload my remix to I get insta-copyright violation before I can even refresh the page a single time. So my whole idea here is a Make it Bun Dem remix. If I'm not using the song for income like monetizing with youtube or anything like that, will the song be deleted? When I say remix I mean I'm just going to take vocals, shots of each of the wobbles, and the main guitar pluck. Everything else like drums, extra leads, drop synths, all of that stuff I'll do from scratch. Would making very minor alterations to the samples stop soundcloud and youtube from deleting the song or is that illegal too?

[mthrfnk]

That song had the parts released for remix purposes, SoundCloud is littered with remixes of that track (including my own). Should be fine.

It's not illegal to upload a remix, just tag it as a bootleg - it may get deleted, it may not.

Also, I've never had a remix deleted from SoundCloud, I guess I'm lucky or that my remixes differ enough not to be "detected".

[Electric_Head]

I've had a fair bit of music prevented from being uploaded by SC because of copyright issues with Roadrunner records.
Stuff from Sepultura that after editing was so unnoticeable I can't imagine how they flagged it but they did.

You'll only know when you upload unfortunately.

[Dj Rephlex]

Oh shit I completely forgot about that beatport competition I think it was? I guess this post is now half pointless, but what you're basically saying is there's no "set-in-stone" way to avoid having tracks deleted because of copyright issues? Shit.

[Maxxan]

Oh shit I completely forgot about that beatport competition I think it was? I guess this post is now half pointless, but what you're basically saying is there's no "set-in-stone" way to avoid having tracks deleted because of copyright issues? Shit.

Nah mate, a remix/bootleg is never legal unless you have the authors specific permission. Even for the remix comps you generally aren't allowed to host the track anywhere except for the site running the comp, but most labels don't bother since they already gave out the track for free more or less, it's just a waste of effort even if they technically ahve the right to remove every Make it Bun Dem remix off of soundcloud.

The general ways to avoid it though are first off to never charge money for anything, don't use it commercially (Spotify etc or in a commercial video or whatever), and making sure you credit the authors can go a long way as well.

If you have a look around my soundcloud you'll see there's quite a few bootlegs on there with a decent amount of plays, I even have them up for download and I've always been fine. I'm always very clear in the track description to credit the label and artist though. I only had one taken down and that was David Guetta remix and he's a douche so obviously his label will be a bunch of douches as well, haha. If someone asks you to bring it down though, you should. You have literally NO rights on your side whatsoever, as a general rule of thumb.

Edit: Just to be clear, no one is going to sue you for any money over a bootleg unless you start making huge cash off it. The worst that could happen is your track gets taken down, so just go for it man.

[skimpi]

I hate thieving scum like you! uplaod your own damn music not someone else!

[Dj Rephlex]

Essentially, putting my own sounds, drums, and all that shit into the song makes a percentage of the song "my own damn music" just thrown in with another song. Remixing plays a major role in the world of music. Actually I can't think of too many BIG time producers that don't remix. It's the perfect way to learn without a tutorial. Eat a dick, and sit the fuck down (:

[FAARE FACED]

Essentially, putting my own sounds, drums, and all that shit into the song makes a percentage of the song "my own damn music" just thrown in with another song. Remixing plays a major role in the world of music. Actually I can't think of too many BIG time producers that don't remix. It's the perfect way to learn without a tutorial. Eat a dick, and sit the fuck down (:

Unfortunately, the people that create and enforce the law don't give a shit about the place of remix in the industry. And if we follow strict logic, they are right.
A remix, even if very different, is still a "Secondary work" for with you HAVE to ask the permission to the owner of the intellectual material (artist/label) before doing anything. Even though you make it a free download, technically speaking it's still secondary work that is not considered original, and therefore can be put down by the original owner.

Let's go further, and imagine your remix is loved and listened everywhere, if you happen to make money of it the owner is totally right to claim a % of it given the part of the original material you used.

It's a shame they have a detection now, but it only means you can't upload on some websites.
Howerver, de minimis non curat, meaning that you can give 0 fucks about this given very few of us "make it" in the industry, your work is likely to be ignored/not popular enough for the author of the original content to care.

Do whatever you want
And if it's only for youtube and soundcloud, why not upload a version with is pitched +-1 semitone (in order not to be detected), i mean, the quality is shit anyway so it's no big deal to modify the track you worked hard on. And then for the download, you redirect people to a filehosting service with the actual non pitched file. It could work.

Still, I wonder how this whole property bullshit was years ago, when we see tracks almost entirely made out of samples like Smack my bitch up of The Prodigy (stunning recreation here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI)


PS : I don't remember who said this but renaming the remix into "bootleg" won't change shit ahahhahaha

[Rhett]

Alright so this has crossed my mind a lot. There are tons and tons of songs that have samples from other songs such as Daft Punk, Skrillex, The Prodigy, and the list can go on forever. How is this legal? Is it because most of the samples are very old and the copyright expires or what? For example, Dog Blood's new song samples Tupac.

[YeahItsMe]

If it's from a song in the past 60 years, odds are it's no public domain. Copyrights last for the life of the author plus 70 years, unless transferred, then the life plus 70 starts again. Odds are the samples are either in the public domain and anybody can access them or they make the actual synths/sounds.

BUT if you want to sample from an an actual song, you need to get Sample Clearance from their record label/ artist if no labe or if you're lucky you can find some in sample packs on Loopmasters.com or something!

*This is true in the US, I cannot speak for Canada, the UK or anywhere else. But ^^^ is fact, I'm taking music business classes

[Rhett]

If it's from a song in the past 60 years, odds are it's no public domain. Copyrights last for the life of the author plus 70 years, unless transferred, then the life plus 70 starts again. Odds are the samples are either in the public domain and anybody can access them or they make the actual synths/sounds.

BUT if you want to sample from an an actual song, you need to get Sample Clearance from their record label/ artist if no labe or if you're lucky you can find some in sample packs on Loopmasters.com or something!

*This is true in the US, I cannot speak for Canada, the UK or anywhere else. But ^^^ is fact, I'm taking music business classes

I understand, what about The Prodigy - Smack My Bitch Up ? That song samples about 15 different songs. Also, you said the authors life + 70 years, but 2pac has only been dead for 17 years and I'm sure the label still owns this for 70 years later as you said but it's still sampled in Dog Blood - Middle Finger.

Clear this up for me? Are there any exceptions? I'm sure The Prodigy didn't call up all kinds of labels to get permission on all those songs neither dog blood/skrillex.

[skimpi]

they probably paid for clearance then

[3za]

It's like snorting cocaine of a hookers tits.

[YeahItsMe]

It's very possible they were not cleared if it's taken from another genre, they might not be looking for it... But someone like Skrillex will definately get clearance because every label with throw it at him... Don't forget, the label/artist depending on song and work involved will make money if it's a hit and promote the original and he does both well!

Do what you want, I mean Datsik used like 20 different hip-hop vocals on his Vitamin D album and I kinda dont think he got clearance because it would be a lot of legwork to get all that clearance. Clearly if the sample is hidden and processed, odds are it won't be able to be pon-pointed as a sample.

BUUUUUT if you get caught, it could mean a lot, like labels not working with you and your credibility can become coid and that would mean no career in the future... Just giving perspective, big names can afford to pay for clearnace and will if they will make money.

Just think, you make a hit that sells 1 MILLION COPIES!!! Someone finds out you sample a piano riff from another song.... The owner/label/artist is going to come and TAKE EVERY LAST CENT!!! I know I sound like a jerk when I say this, but guys, be smart and don't take that risk , for all you know the label/artist will endorse your song and talk about marketing baby!!!!!!!

[mthrfnk]

Recent example: Baauer. Harlem Shake uses uncleared samples, it went unoticed for like a year as a track that remained popular within it's genre but not to the wider public. It went viral with the whole video thing and suddenly the artists who he sampled are looking for payouts...

[nameless133]

I heard DJ Shadow sometimes had problems with sample clearance and couldn't release a bunch of songs. But I don't know how he cleared some rare, forgotten songs' samples on his Endtroducing.... album but I remember he said it's easy when the song is very old.

[mthrfnk]

I guess the older it is, the less the artist/relations/mgmt think about saying no - it's a quick easy payout at the end if the day to say yes, use it.

In regards to Skrillex - in some of his earlier tracks that were free I guess they were uncleared but the likes of his newer stuff is surely cleared considering the amount of management he has behind him and how popular he is.

[extremesociety]

The majors and larger artists have teams of people who clear samples. Publishing can be a nightmare.

Unknowns can fly under the radar basically unscathed until something blows up (READ: Baauer). But even then, the rights holders are well within their rights to demand royalties and payment on any revenue generated from the song. There's a ton of court precedence on this in the US and Europe, and other countries generally follow the US/European model.

[bouncingfish]

Nobody's going to give a shit if you bootleg some track and get 50 plays on soundcloud.

Words of wisdom.

[bouncingfish]

I thought alot about this issue when I was watching this video.
Almost everything in that tune he shows basically consists of samples, even the melody.
How the hell does he get away with that?
And the prodigy - Smack My Bitch Up (like others have mentioned) consists of like 15 different samples.
Also, some of Netsky's biggest hits have whole choruses n shit from old tracks.
At least Alex Metric doesn't mention anything about it being cleared, he just goes record shopping and rips the records.
This is confusing.